Talk:Wendy Marvell vs. Ezel

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Carla as a participant

Remind me why Carla is a participant in this fight? She did one thing (which was scratch Ezel) towards the middle (leaning towards the end) of the fight, and acted more as a distraction than a participant. Participants generally, from start to finish, have substantial physical involvement in a fight and actively participate and contribute to the outcome in some way. May I also point out that the chapter in which 75% of this occurred was called Wendy vs. Ezel? >_>
WrathZero 14:13, October 14, 2015 (UTC)

But she also was a kind of catalyst for allowing Wendy going into Dragon Force. Isn't that, along with the scratching, enough of a reason? NoNickNeeded (talk) 14:22, October 14, 2015 (UTC)

^ essentially what I just wanted to say. DispellingMage14:23,10/14/2015

Participation may have been small but was still participation. 14:24, October 14, 2015 (UTC)

Oh guys please, don't you think it's a little ridiculous? There should be some line where we can say that a character's involvement wasn't significant enough to include them in the fight title. Miskos3 Message 15:50, October 14, 2015 (UTC)

Carla literally appeared for two seconds to scratch Ezel. I don't consider that fighting. >_> 夢Iam...  黒  JakuhōRaikōben死16:00,10/14/2015

Lol I don't either... her and Hibiki would be better off being just participants or combatants than actually being in the headline, they play apart in the battle but don't actually do battle with Ezel and Angel Ncduru16:08,10/14/2015

That's like saying that Happy shouldn't be considered a part of Natsu Dragneel & Happy vs. Cobra & Cubellios or Jellal a part of Natsu Dragneel & Jellal Fernandes vs. Zero. They play vital roles, they should be mentioned. :/ --Sane Lunatic (talk) 16:13, October 14, 2015 (UTC)

Carla by herself doesn't have any real role in the battle. Serving as an inspiration is not enough. Therefore, I Support renaming the fight. --Sane Lunatic (talk) 16:13, October 14, 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps instead of looking at it from the view that Carla only shouted and scratched Ezel to get off Wendy, look at it from the point of Ezel and Wendy. Ezel basically just found himself being *ahem* attacked by a snack, and for Wendy it was, as Nick put's it, a 'catalyst' to end the fight. You wouldn't say that in a hostage situation, after sending the special forces in to end it, that the negotiators didn't participate in the entire event. Why should this be any different? Just some food for thought, not my personal opinion. Derax Pagani 16:15, October 14, 2015 (UTC)

Then why don't we include Face in the title... Wendy fought because of it (and destroyed it), in fact, it did more than Carla by allowing Wendy to power up Miskos3 Message 16:20, October 14, 2015 (UTC)

Because Carla's a character whereas Face is plot device? ( ._.) Derax Pagani 16:22, October 14, 2015 (UTC)

Hmmm, I'm guessing Misk's thoughts are more on the line of 'why not include Natsu in Lucy's fight against Flare because he technically did attack Flare as well as allowed Lucy to get a chance at victory'. Of course, this example might also get shot down on the lines of 'Lucy vs. Flare is an official match in a competition', so eh. .-. --Sane Lunatic (talk) 16:41, October 14, 2015 (UTC)

All I'm trying to say is that there are a lot of other factors affecting the fights, but the titles shouldn't include all of them. Miskos3 Message 16:42, October 14, 2015 (UTC)

Face is an inanimate object, so that's hardly a fitting comparison, unless you want to add every used weapon, armour and item into the titles. Carla's a sentient being, not an item... but anyway:

I thought a bit more on the situation and I have a suggestion for such small-contributions in general, not just for this particular fight:
Put only the main participants into the title (in this case Wendy and Ezel), but make a "Other Participants" section somewhere within the article itself for minor contributors. I think that would solve such situations quite nicely. Of course it'd have to be incorporated into past fights too, if it's decided to be adopted this way. NoNickNeeded (talk) 16:23, October 14, 2015 (UTC)

She acted for 2 seconds of the entire fight. Why don't we just consider Elfman a participant in the Seilah battle as well? He did something right? He participated for 2 seconds too. Seriously, let's not be asinine. Hiro doesn't even consider her a participant in the fight. Why should we? So many of our fights are either A, redundant; B, not appropriately named; or C, just plain stupid. Let's reduce the idiocy by one page, shall we? She did not make a lasting contribution to the fight. Ezel was going to kill her, yes, but she jumped on him, said some fancy words and then Wendy owned him after participating in the fight entirely by herself prior. She has no lasting, significant contribution to the outcome of the fight, made no significant contributions during the fight, and did not participate at the beginning. Do you not see the problem with her being listed as a major participant? With her being in the title?
WrathZero 16:51, October 14, 2015 (UTC)

Being a catalyst for dragon force != fighting. Carla did not fight. If someone is present during a fight and talks during a fight but doesnt fight, we don't include them in the fight title, otherwise Makarov would be in the fight titles for the majority of the GMG fights because he was cheering on his guild.-- God · Pray · 18:25,10/14/2015 

We need to determine what constitutes enough as a contribution for a character to be added as a participant. Off the top of my head, we have Natsu and Jellal vs. Zero, with Jellal giving Natsu the flames, and Lucy and Hibiki vs Angel, with Hibiki giving Lucy the spell. Meanwhile, we have battles such as Lucy, Happy, and Loke vs. Bickslow where Loke is technically Lucy's Magic, whether she summoned him or not, and still, Loke (when he was actually in Leo form the whole time..) is in the page's title. During the Battle of Fairy Tail, Makarov and Natsu read the stats and Lucy was obviously a sole competitor.

If my first 2 examples can remain as such, then Carla should remain in this title. Otherwise, we need to fix our definition and have it written clearly in our Layout Guide or anywhere else appropriate.
:Umnei: 19:02, October 14, 2015 (UTC)

For Lucy Heartfilia, Happy & Loke vs. Bickslow, I'd like to point out this. Sure, one could interpret that statement to mean that Lucy would have lost if she didn't own Loke's key, but I think it's pretty clear that Mashima considers Loke's participation as not a part of Lucy's Magic. Just my opinion though. ._./ --Sane Lunatic (talk) 19:17, October 14, 2015 (UTC)

Im perfectly fine with renaming all those fights-- God · Pray · 19:32,10/14/2015 

Same, might even be an idea to change the policy for naming fights so that only combatants are named in the title? Derax Pagani 19:41, October 14, 2015 (UTC)

1. Loke is still a Celestial Spirit. He does not get special treatment because of his status as a FT member; he was summoned with his key at that time.
2. Jellal did not physically participate in the battle. He took a hit, and then gave Natsu some magic. He also showed up midway through. If anything, he is just a distraction.
3. Hibiki is the same as Jellal.
   WrathZero 19:40, October 14, 2015 (UTC)

Alrighty sounds good~ and before anyone brings it up, Loke/ Leo's battles during the Tenrou arc are an exception, as he told Lucy straight up that their contract is null and void, up until he and Capricorn returned to the Spirit world.
:Umnei: 19:49, October 14, 2015 (UTC)

Agreed about the fight names, but what about making a list with contributers that aren't main fighters? NoNickNeeded (talk) 20:02, October 14, 2015 (UTC)

The purpose of fights is not to list contributors or people on standby. It is to mention in the infobox the people that directly participated in the fights themselves (and actually fought) and list what they used in said fight, as well as the outcome of the fight between the combatants only. What you are thinking of is what we already do for events, which are all encompassing towards everyone in the vicinity of the happening. I see no need to change the fights. They will be talked about in the course of the summary, after all, and changing the infobox deviates from the very format of what makes a fight page a fight page. If we did that, we would have to go back through every single fight, and for some we would just wind up with an even longer infobox than was there prior.
WrathZero 20:06, October 14, 2015 (UTC)

Yea, spirits shouldn't be included either. Lucy Heartfilia vs. Tartaros, guys. ;o I also agree with all the renames (no Jellal/no Hibiki etc.) Miskos3 Message 20:37, October 14, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, Carla was unable to fight at that time. So I'm against having Carla as the participant. NessTalk 23:06, October 14, 2015 (UTC)