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I'm just going to say that the name is most likely German-based, and will likely be changed to something closer to Waal Icht, given the name from the spoiler (ワール・イーヒト, Wāru Īhito). (Please do not forget the "Purehito" (プレヒト) incident.)

Though I can see why that panda site translated his name as "Badd Mann". :3 ChaosKnight 14:27, September 14, 2015 (UTC)

If the name is in fact German-based, then it should probably go as Wahl Icht. :P DispellingJellal chibiMage14:37,9/14/2015

I think it's supposed to be a pun on the word "bad man" (warui hito). Immblueversion (talk) 14:40, September 14, 2015 (UTC)
Oh clever. :O DispellingJellal chibiMage14:41,9/14/2015
I vote for Batman Miskos3 Message 14:42, September 14, 2015 (UTC)
I like Wahl more than Waal. Wahru, like Aguria and Purehito, is just Japanese sound of his name so I guess it shouldn't be Wahru, it is cringy. So I'm supporting Wahl Icht.

Klainatta (talk) 15:12, September 14, 2015 (UTC)

It might be wahl like dude said above, remember the name marin told brandish in chapter 443? Ncduru (talk) 15:29, September 14, 2015 (UTC)

Name reference

In the MangaStream version of this chapter, there is a (*) right next to "Wahru Ihyto's " name when he was introduced. It usually means something or referred to something, can someone elaborate please?--CNBA3 (talk) 15:39, September 14, 2015 (UTC)

They left it out for some reason but his name is supposed to be a pun, with his name meaning "Bad Man" --Ncduru (talk) 18:16, September 14, 2015 (UTC)

Looks like they updated that page Miskos3 Message 17:36, September 15, 2015 (UTC)

Name Voting

This discussion is closed. The result of this discussion is:
His name was changed to Wahl Icht
Please do not edit this discussion.

Like what Chaos said the last name will probably be closer to "Pre(cht)" than "Pureh(ito)" as you can tell the similar way you can say his last name.. so the last 3 options for his last name is Chaos's translation. Might as well knock it out now

Wahru Ihyto
  1. Support Support - I think this is the most correct name if considering the pun, "bad man". Also, I like this better; it sounds smoother and I love the way it rolls of the tounge. Therefore, I am in the favor of this one. Onfire.gif Wonder Talk 18:04,9/14/2015
  2. Support Support - Meh, I feel like all the proposals kill the joke that was present in the Japanese version. Plus, I don't pronounce Waal Icht as Waru Ihito. I pronounce it as Wall Itch. >_> Iam...    JakuhōRaikōben15:26,9/16/2015
Waal Icht
Wahl Icht
  1. Support Support - don't know German but I'll take DM's word for it, I'm cool this one or Wahrl Ncduru (talk) 17:58, September 14, 2015 (UTC)
  2. Support Support - In German, letter "h" after the vowel marks a long vowel so, if the origins are German, this would make more sense than any other proposals to me. :P DispellingJellal chibiMage18:02,9/14/2015
  3. Support Support - Thought his name was supposed to Wahl from the start. ( ._.) And if it's pronounced as 'Vahl Icht' that will be brilliant ( ^_^) Derax PaganiTartaros 18:10, September 14, 2015 (UTC)
  4. Support Support - This sounds better. Klainatta (talk) 20:33, September 14, 2015 (UTC)
  5. Support Support - Wahl or Wahrl. Pretty impartial honestly.
    WrathRogue ChibiZero 21:32, September 14, 2015 (UTC)
  6. Support Support - The Mangapanda version of Chapter 452 calls him "Baad Maan". That is kinda off of my league. ._.
  7. Support Support - Cool~ ☆°・*CarrotSays...*・°☆ 00:39, September 15, 2015 (UTC)
  8. Support Support - We can always change it if the official translation comes out. Lumin the Lord of Light 00:48, September 15, 2015 (UTC)
  9. Support Support - Plue without backgroundAnimaltamer7Nikora Key10:48, September 17, 2015 (UTC)
  10. Support Support - LightningGeistLaxus Chibi 14:05, September 17, 2015 (UTC)
Wahrl Icht

Also, the word "Wahl" means "choice" in German which isn't of any significance right now, but at least has some meaning behind it. Just saying. ;P
DispellingJellal chibiMage18:07,9/14/2015

I support the proposal and I don't mean to cause any problems, but why are we voting on this now? Shouldn't we at least wait until the raw and official translations are out. For all we know the kanji from the spoilers may be wrong (the kanji for magic king was wrong in the spoiler for this week's chapter).--DuelMaster93 (talk) 03:44, September 15, 2015 (UTC)

Crunchy went with Wall Eehto, if anyone's interested~
:Umnei:Juvia'sPictureForUmneiSignature 05:51, September 16, 2015 (UTC)

Oh nice. Should a new vote be started then? Or should there be any debate about this name in the first place? :o DispellingJellal chibiMage05:55,9/16/2015

fake vs real

we must create two separate pages about the real form or we use this?

--Nitram86 (talk) 14:39, November 9, 2015 (UTC)


This discussion is closed. The result of this discussion is:
Quote will be changed.
Please do not edit this discussion.
In other words, our target is the body of your former lover. If this is to become some deeply sinful act...

—Fake Wahl Icht, Chapter 452

I am the elite Machias, Master Wahl! Never underestimate me!

—Real Wahl Icht, Chapter 461

I'm pretty sure this is a no-brainer, but whatever.
WrathRogue ChibiZero 22:21, November 19, 2015 (UTC)

  1. Support Support -
    WrathRogue ChibiZero 22:21, November 19, 2015 (UTC)
  2. Support Support --- God · Pray · 22:24,11/19/2015 
  3. Support Support - NcduruRavens wallpaper (2)
  4. Support Support - Onfire.gif Wonder Talk 22:51,11/19/2015
  5. Support Support - LightningGeistLaxus Chibi 01:08, November 20, 2015 (UTC)
  6. Support Support - Lyra (no background)Animaltamer7Lyra Key04:07, November 20, 2015 (UTC)
  7. Support Support - Iam...    JakuhōRaikōben04:17,11/20/2015
  8. Support Support - This shouldn't even be discussed because the current shouldn't even be a quote at all .-.
    ☆°・*CarrotSays...*・°☆ 06:26, November 20, 2015 (UTC)
  9. Support Support - -- The Talk Goblin 06:48, November 20, 2015 (UTC)
  10. Support Support - :Umnei:Juvia'sPictureForUmneiSignature 19:15, November 20, 2015 (UTC)
  11. Support Support - Derax PaganiTartaros 19:39, November 20, 2015 (UTC)
  12. Support Support - Not sure what the current quote should say about him. .-. DispellingJellal chibiMage19:45,11/20/2015

Machina Senses I think

So you guys know how he like used his robotic vision (I guess) to see off the far distance and locate, target and lock on to some fodders and Beth and shot some missiles, should we add that to his Magic and Abilities section? 23:07, February 7, 2016 (UTC)


Should we put Alchemy as his magic also considering that's what he's known to be doing in that chapter by use it to fuse both copper and zinc into some bullets, and changing his personality mode such as the Assault Mode?Starpower98 (talk) 17:34, February 8, 2016 (UTC)

Nobody won't answer?:(Starpower98 (talk) 17:53, February 8, 2016 (UTC)

You only posted this for 20 mins, so just be patient and wait, someone will answer. [furbie.helios.tissue.moup.yuki.tofu] 17:54, 2/8/2016  

Well what do you think?Starpower98 (talk) 17:56, February 8, 2016 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I agree. Anyway, this way it's quicker:
1. Changing his personality, as well as the fact he is able to analyze the opponent, are hinted to be abilities granted by his Machias body, not Weakness or Alchemy. His transformation however may be Alchemy, but it's not clear.
2. It's clear that neither the bullets, nor the cannon or the missiles are created using Weakness.
3. The composite bullets, "defense arm" (used to stop Laxus's attack) and "offensive arm" (used to attack Laxus) need to be added to his abilities (just a reminder for when the discussion is over, since God Serena's Immense Durability is still missing). --Martialmaniac (talk) 16:45, February 10, 2016 (UTC)

1. Well according to what I searched about Alchemy, it does mentioned something about a seemingly magical process of transformation, creation, or combination.
2. Yeah I know that part. And come to think of it what if Weakness is just the proxy he created ability and not really his primary magic which during his fight with Laxus, he's shown to be more of an alchemist? It doesn't make sense for what he's shown to be stated as weakness like you said including that canon.
3. Well the defense and offensive arm is sort of added to his Machia Physiology ability, but not the bullets and missiles which should be mentioned as well. 05:21, February 11, 2016 (UTC)
1. It's a series about magic. His magic utilizes alchemy. It's not difficult to figure out.
2. That's massive speculation. We go by what we see and are told. We see glyphs associated with Weakness used by the proxy, who by definition is an extension of Wahl. Wahl uses his magic, creates same glyphs upon use, creates machinery and whatnot as well. It's Weakness. You can't apply your own thoughts when there is no proof in-story to back itup.
3. The bullets and missiles should be added to his magic's description, not the description of the Machias race. Wahl is doing this with Weakness. It's not an innate ability. He is a unique Machias that can use magic.
WrathRogue ChibiZero 05:24, February 11, 2016 (UTC)

I completely disagree about this not being Weakness. Why does it have to be two different things? When Wahl creates these bits of machinery, bullets, missiles, whatever else, the glyphs that appear are exactly the same as when Weakness is used. Why is this? It's that he's doing the same thing: creating machinery/weaponry. Weakness utilizes alchemic process to create his devices; it's not something completely different.

I can see the argument being, "Well, the devices covered don't extort any sort of weakness," and here is why that potential argument is false. When one creates a missile, the goal is extort the enemy's weak defense and blow them up. When one creates 9mm bullets, the goal is to kill them by ripping through their flesh. The Material Cannon? Wahl himself was at a disadvantage, so he compensated for his own weakness by creating something capable of matching the 400km gap.

Tl;dr: Weakness is an alchemic magic. Alchemy is not its own thing. He's doing the same shit over and over again.
WrathRogue ChibiZero 21:14, February 10, 2016 (UTC)

Ok whatever like you know I've been asking and waiting for somebody to tell me this shit cause not only me but some others are confused on the type of magic he uses and thinks he's an Alchemy magic user. And you took what I said wrong, I was saying those arms he used was already added to his Machias Physiology ability, I never said the bullets and missiles should be added there, I just said it should be added as in somewhere in his Magic and Abilities section05:40, February 11, 2016 (UTC)

I didn't just reply. I replied hours ago because I had free time, and my post got haphazardly removed anyway, so whatever in that regard. And sorry that I have a life and couldn't reply. You should honestly be grateful that I even took the time to reply at all, because most people just arbitrarily ignore stuff like this because it should just be common sense, or maybe they too aren't sure. And he technically is a user of alchemy, but that's because Weakness is alchemy. It just has a different name.
WrathRogue ChibiZero 05:46, February 11, 2016 (UTC)

Oh well anyway back to the bullets and missiles, so no to that shouldn't be added somewhere? 05:57, February 11, 2016 (UTC)
Everything important has been added to his page, from the bullets and missiles to the alchemic powers of Weakness, and even his two dynamic personalities.
WrathRogue ChibiZero 08:40, February 11, 2016 (UTC)
Yaaaayy!! :D71.50.115.253 11:01, February 11, 2016 (UTC)

Machias Physiology

Considering how Wahl manage to transform his arms into appropriate battle form capable of matching Laxus' lighting-empowered fists augmented with his already formidable strength of a Shield of Spriggan and how he analyzes opponents of their flaws and weaknesses with his eyes like a HUD-targeting system of sorts in his line of sight, can this be sorted out as "Machias Physiology" in the Magic and Abilities section just like the Demon Physiology of the Etherious found in pages of the 8 Nine Demon Gate members of Tartaros? --Bato of the Heavy Iron Rock Hammer (talk) 07:21, February 9, 2016 (UTC)

Single policy

God Serena is "deceased" and Wahl is "active", huh ?


might as well bring this up now... so it doesn't make sense for a machine to be "deceased" so what should his status be? Unknown is cool but honestly this isn't like Beth getting blown up and we haven't seen her since cause we saw that Laxus destroy him... is this a special case where his status would be something new like "Destroyed" or "Dismembered"? Idek wanna hear y'all takes NcduruRavens wallpaper (2) 17:19, February 23, 2016 (UTC)

Unknown is correct here. We can't change it until we get more information about whether he is alive or dead. And just because he's a machine doesn't mean we can't mark him as dead. Technically, he's a male, sentient, autonomous being. Generally, he's portrayed as an actual person. Deceased would be perfectly fine if he is confirmed as such. And, in case he is alive but cannot function until he is fixed, he will be marked as Inactive. --Sane Lunatic (talk) 17:26, February 23, 2016 (UTC)

that's the thing... I agree with what you saying but then we get this diagram with a clear X on his face in the latest chapter and a confirmation from Warren even saying they manage to take out... to me that's alot of confirmation right there, wanna hear more people on this NcduruRavens wallpaper (2) 17:32, February 23, 2016 (UTC)
Thats a confirmation he is defeated, but not deceased. He is a machine. He is different than humans and we have to consider that. Until such a time as he is shown to be dead beyond repair, we have to keep it as unknown.-- God · Pray · 17:37,2/23/2016 
true! that makes sense NcduruRavens wallpaper (2) 17:40, February 23, 2016 (UTC)

Name 2

This discussion is closed. The result of this discussion is:
Name will be changed.
Please do not edit this discussion.

After reading some of the volumes and talking with wrath and derax, and after the correction the wiki changed Bloodman, I think we should change we should strongly, strongly consider changing this name to Wall Eehto. Please hear me out, one the volumes and hard subs given in the anime are the most accurate translation for names, but of course everything the wiki uses like Tenrou Island and Lamy, some stuff like take are honestly the same and not a big difference. But besides the point, just reading the volume format of 55 I think it should be Wall Eehto, one cause we never gave this to be voted on when Ummy brought it up a couple months ago, two (and my biggest reason) is cause of his trivia revolving around his name. In Kodashna relates his name in English to be "Vill Ann" since his name is supposed to mean "bad person". I don't doubt Chaos or DM's validity on this being a German, but we honestly don't know if it is or not, and if we didn't have this trivia I would roll with Wahl Icht but we do so that's not plausible. I compared the kanji to "precht プレヒト" and "icht ワール" trust me I don't know Japanese but I guarantee that if it was "icht" then it would be something closer to Precht's kanji. Wall Eehto looks silly but it's supposed to be silly cause it's a pun in Japanese. So I honestly think we should change this, at least while Wahl is still relevant in the arc, so stream, translators, and the fandom on social media can catch up. Just my points so yeah just a vote Ncduru

Wall Eehto
  1. Support Support - It just started making too much sense to me, going back and forth between stream translations and the volume format, I honestly think this is the right one and the anime subs when it comes back will probably have this same name Ncduru 18:59, August 24, 2016 (UTC)
  2. Support Support - Derax PaganiDerax Signature Image 19:04, August 24, 2016 (UTC)
  3. Support Support - Does the katakana match a German pronunciation? Yes, it coincidentally does. However, this is a pun on a small Japanese phrase. There is nothing German in nature about it, unlike with Precht, as "Warui Hito" clearly has no German base, as evidenced by mangapanda's original translation of "Bad Mann," or Kodansha admitting that the equivalent in English would be "Vill Inn" (Bad Mann is similar). Tl;dr: No German base. It's a Japanese pun. Wall Eehto is correct, while Wahl Icht is completely incorrect.
    WrathRogue ChibiZero 19:10, August 24, 2016 (UTC)
  4. Support Support - DispellingSiegrain ChibiMage19:15,8/24/2016
  5. Support Support - It does not matter if a name is "silly" or whatever, if that is the correct translation of a name then we owe it to all visitors to get it right. Keeping up appearences instead of doing the right thing sure sounds like a occupation that is very hated in certain areas, but I digress, it changes and that is that. FleetChibi CobraAdmiral 19:43, August 24, 2016 (UTC)
Wahl Icht
  1. Support Support - Wall Eehto is bloody ridiculous. And calling the tl given by the volumes as the most accurate tl is a fallacy. There is only correct or wrong tl, and Lady Chaos weeds out the wrong ones. Just because the tler who is currently on a BS roll on CR gets his tl proofread a bit for the volumes doesn't make it any more accurate than some other tl. Going along with the volume tl due to convenience is valid reasoning; calling it the most accurate is plain false. They're in no way infallible. --Sane Lunatic (talk) 19:21, August 24, 2016 (UTC)

Imho, Eehto looks like a bad romaji/romanized version of Icht to me. So yes, it is silly. Since you made the Precht comparison, I'm just gonna say that changing his surname to Eehto is like changing Precht back to Purehito. I don't care about the first name all that much, but tbh I'm kinda against changing the surname, mostly for the fact that changing it sounds like a lot of unnecessary work, however, I do understand the pun reasoning. Even though imo Wahl Icht doesn't go against it in any way and it can still be mentioned in the trivia, I'm kinda w/e at this point. *shrugs* Miskos3 Message 19:08, August 24, 2016 (UTC)

Sane, the translations given by the volumes are in no way always the most correct. However, this is a Japanese pun. It has no German base or German intent. Yes, you have names like Precht, Makarov, Yuri, Ivan and more that are of foreign base and have foreign intent. However, they shouldn't be a precedent for all other names that sound like they could be foreign. It could be Wall Eehto/Ihto/Iyhto/whatever other way to spell it under the darn sun, but people can be wrong, are wrong, and Icht is wrong. The translator for CR is also the same person for Kodansha who translates Fairy Tail anyway. It's just that they translate it on a weekly basis and re-check their own translations, and publish it under CR weekly. So saying that Icht is just as valid as Eehto means that we should go back and rediscuss renaming Precht to Purehito, because it's the exact same situation, just in reverse. Using the volume spelling of Eehto as oppose to the other two ways to spell is mere convenience so that our names match the names of the official English material.
WrathRogue ChibiZero 19:31, August 24, 2016 (UTC)

This... has nothing to do with the German nature of the name. I simply prefer Wahl Icht over Wall Eehto, and, as I stated, Kodansha's tl does not necessarily mean that it is superior to other tl. And I specifically mentioned that because, while I'm sure it's not his intention, Ncd outright states that Kodansha tl is supreme, a rule which I'm pretty sure the wiki has blatantly stated to be invalid.
Yes, it is a Japanese pun. So I think we should try to reproduce the pronunciation without going full romaji. For me, Wahl Icht just sounds far better than Wall Eehto. Inetrchanging l and r is fine and so is skipping the final o, but I'd rather not compromise on the pronunciation of the a. Icht also provides a closer approximation for the Japanese pronunciation, particularly the h and the t. Just my simplistic perspective. ._./ --Sane Lunatic (talk) 19:53, August 24, 2016 (UTC)

@Fleet: Wahl Icht and Wall Eehto are both correct. So voting based on preference is perfectly fine, until we get better evidence that one is superior to the other (like Mumnei provided to prove Tartaros superior to Tartarus). --Sane Lunatic (talk) 19:53, August 24, 2016 (UTC)


Fire Magic should be added to Wall: one of the properties of Etherion is Fire Magic, so since Wall uses Etherion he is also using Fire Magic through it. It's like how Jellal has never displayed Water/Wind/Earth Magics, but we list them due to them being properties of Abyss Break - which he uses. --Neffyarious (talk) 16:09, March 8, 2019 (UTC)

As for the Abyss break it was made clear in the manga that the spell cannot be used without the four elements which was shown when the element four was defeated one by one, since jellal was able to cast abyss break on his own and was already shown to be able to use fire magic it would make sense for him to also be able to use the 3 elements and such feat wont be questionable since he is already shown as a powerful mage.

As for etherion i checked chapter 98, unfortunately according to this link etherion has different properties and not just fire, i believe the translation is different coz it never mentioned that it was being fire magic. It was also mentioned here that the "fire" translation doesnt exist in the other translated manga, so for accuracy maybe we'll need to check the official english translation or the raws just to be absolutely sure. It is also possible that erza was trying to say that natsu cannot eat it since it's not just made of normal fire which he can normally eat since its also mixed with other properties.

But keep in mind it was never mentioned that you need different elements to use Etherion, as mentioned in the page and the chapter i linked above the released etherion energy is made of different properties and not just fire. It's possible that you don't need to have fire magic to use etherion but the result of the etherion would create a magical energy that has a lot of properties which includes fire. Feel free to double check. LightningGeistLaxus Chibi 01:56, March 9, 2019 (UTC)

One of the magic circles that charges Etherion is a Fire Magic circle, that along with fire being known to be apart of Etherion would mean a user of Etherion is a user of Fire Magic. Probably would be best to have a translator check the raws though, to make sure fire is mentioned. --Neffyarious (talk) 17:13, March 9, 2019 (UTC)

Well the fire being part of Etherion's composition is confirmed. --Neffyarious (talk) 17:58, March 9, 2019 (UTC)

In the official volume translation, it is stated that “Ethernanos are infused with all sorts of power, not just flames” by Erza. So this should keep things simple.--CNBA3 (talk) 19:44, March 31, 2019 (UTC)


Something that had bothered me about Etherion. The original Etherion was said to yield more Magic Power than all the Mages of Ishgar combined. And yet Wahl can use it. And I see how this is far into speculation. However the original Etherion had the power to destroy the R-System if it didn’t absorb the Magic Power. So Wahl preparing to fire an Etherion Blast against Laxus in Hargeon. Is this enough evidence that Wahl’s Etherion is inferior to the Magic Council’s one? As if Etherion could destroy the R-System a tower based island than Wahl firing Etherion in Hargeon wouldn’t be considered a logical move. As he would have been caught up in the blast radius been literal meters from Laxus. It’s haft the reason he dispelled the Jutsu Shiki when Laxus trapped him and himself in one.[[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 02:40, March 9, 2019 (UTC)

It wasn't expanded by the manga and anime so all we can do is take what was presented as it is, anything more than that would be speculations. It's possible that mashima just ignored the info he presented when etherion was first introduced and just added it to wall for an added coolness factor. LightningGeistLaxus Chibi 02:47, March 9, 2019 (UTC)

The anime makes it seem like it's just as strong, since the attack is seen being formed the same way as before (albeit in space). Aside from that it's hard to tell, could be that it's weaker, or that Wall was planning to back up before it hit - and was stopped from doing that by the Jutsu Shiki. --Neffyarious (talk) 11:19, March 9, 2019 (UTC)

Is it worth noting that Wall’s Etherion requires his Magic Fusion Reactor (MFR) to be at its maximum output to use Etherion? Also as a sidenote, not as fact. But Wall possessing an equal strength of the original Etherion doesn’t break canon. As he is not human, but a Machina with a Magic Fusion Reactor. Like the original Etherion Satellite, it’s a Magic Device. But that is more on the theory spectrum and isn’t confirmed. But the first part is, when he starts to charge his MFR to use Etherion. I’m just asking if it’s worth noting, unless it already is and I missed it.[[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 14:17, March 28, 2019 (UTC)

I actually don't get if he's supposed to fire the Etherion out of his palm or he's just commanding some kind of a space satellite to pew pew at Laxus?  Miskos3  Message  14:35, March 28, 2019 (UTC)

In chapter 473 it was shown that it was supposed to come out of his palm and that's it but in the anime they added a filler scene where they showed the same satellite used by the magic council, possibly to remind the viewers how big deal the etherion was since it was used by the magic council in the past. Keep in mind it was never mentioned that wall now owns or control the etherion satellite used by the magic council so i don't really get why would the anime even show the satellite in the first place aside from extending the scene and adding some coolness factor. XD LightningGeistLaxus Chibi 14:58, March 28, 2019 (UTC)

I mean his palm could've been just an aiming thing of sorts...  Miskos3  Message  20:32, March 28, 2019 (UTC)

Well when we look at it like this, based on fan calculations, both types of Etherion both have around the same range of yield, one with calculating a size of a Country on Ishgar and based on radiation energy of Wall’s Etherion using nuclear fusion process would be around the same yield.--CNBA3 (talk) 19:50, March 31, 2019 (UTC)


Alchemy should be listed separate from Weakness; all of Wall's alchemy creations (aside from his soldiers) have nothing to do with Weakness and Wall defines his Weakness magic as "creating soldiers which exploit the enemy's weakness" and "identifying his enemy's weakness", not as creating things from alchemy. --Neffyarious (talk) 16:52, April 16, 2019 (UTC)

But that is wall's magic, his weakness magic is his alchemy magic, he is creating something out of nothing using alchemy and what he creates is configured so that it will have the weakness of his enemy. There is already a discussion above about his magic above and it's very likely that alchemy in the fairytail universe is unique and not like alchemy in the other series like full metal alchemist or real life alchemy. LightningGeistLaxus Chibi 03:56, April 18, 2019 (UTC)

I'm aware of the above discussion, but I believe this needs to be addressed again. While he does use alchemy and weakness at the same time when creating his soldiers he uses them both separate as well. As I said he defines his magic as "creating soldiers which exploit the enemy's weakness" and "identifying his enemy's weakness", neither descriptions include his creation of other weaponry (like the Railgun). The glyphs that appear are indicative of him using alchemy to create something rather than a sign his Weakness is being used (he uses Weakness at points to get info from targets and their are no glyphs). His Voltex Charge is also referred to as an alchemy ability by Freed, and Wall refers to it as unrelated to his Weakness magic.--Neffyarious (talk) 09:23, April 18, 2019 (UTC)

So would you propose to have Alchemy as his main ability and Weakness, as well as other Alchemy spells under that ability?  Miskos3  Message  12:50, April 18, 2019 (UTC)

I would put Alchemy and Weakness as separate abilities, the spells would go under Alchemy aside from Weakness Creation; either going under Weakness or being on it's own since it uses both Alchemy and Weakness. --Neffyarious (talk) 14:20, April 18, 2019 (UTC)

But that makes no sense. Weakness clearly makes use of Alchemy.  Miskos3  Message  08:04, April 19, 2019 (UTC)

I double checked chapter 460 and regarding voltex charge and even though he said his magic identifies weakness he also said that his puppet has a weakness and gave it with voltex charge, he gave his puppet an advantage the same way he gave his weakness soldiers an advantage over the certain weaknesses so i dont get why it has to be a separate thing. Keep in mind freed doesnt know who wall really is and he just described walls puppet having alchemic abilities in other words a feature which already exist in the other weakness soldiers, so basing what he said about walls puppet as a basis on wall having a seperate alchemy magic would be unreliable.

I think you are taking his magic name too literally, his magic is to find the weakness of his enemies and create the appropriate countermeasure such as robots or weapons, also it's not just elemental weakness like steam versus ice, white magic versus black magic since when he scanned ichiya and we saw that he is overweight, has back pain, ugly and so on. Therefore wall can make whatever he believes can give him advantage against his enemy such as making a railgun or a long range cannon. Mashima made it that way so if that how it is then we can't expand on it that or seperate them.

Separating alchemy and weakness is speculative, it was clearly shown that Weakness Soldiers, Railgun and his Super Long Distance Anti-Material Magic Cannon is made by weakness and weakness uses alchemy to create those it was never mentioned that he uses weakness magic and alchemy magic separately.

That is why the official manga never even called him using "alchemy magic" and no japanese word was used to show that it is separate from weakness and the alchemy word was mainly used as a way to describe what he is doing, like controlling a puppet with alchemic abilities, wall alchemically creating missiles and so on. If it were a separate magic why didn't mashima introduced it as a separate magic with the appropriate kanji and so on similar to how he gave official names to magic used by characters like jacob using stealth and transport both are separate magic and with their own japanese characters to highlight the name of those magic. LightningGeistLaxus Chibi 10:23, April 19, 2019 (UTC)

Weakness does use alchemy to create soldiers, but it can also be used without alchemy (when he scanned Ichiya/Laxus he did not employ alchemy afterwards and simply acted on his own). I'm not saying Alchemy is a magic, but rather that it's an ability. Wall says his magic identifies enemy weakness, and that he got rid of his own - changing his body via alchemy (as in weakness is used only on enemies, but he can use alchemy on himself). The glyphs used for Weakness Creation, Magic Cannon and Railgun were representative of alchemy being in use as they have shown up every time alchemy has been used - but not every time weakness is in use (the Laxus/Ichiya example). As I've said, he explicitly refers to weakness as detecting weakness and creating soldiers, he never says weakness is used in the creation of anything else. At the start of the fight against Laxus he even uses alchemy to create bullets out of copper and zinc before he's used weakness to scan Laxus. --Neffyarious (talk) 11:56, April 19, 2019 (UTC)

I think it's fine in the format it's presented, so I wouldn't change anything--Ncduru 11:18, April 28, 2019 (UTC)

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