Talk: Ivan Dreyar

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Thought Projection

I'm wondering if Ivan could use thought projection magic. It might be some kind of illusion magic but it seems exactly like thought projection. In Chapter 287, Makarov also stated that it's some kind of thought projection.

Seahorse ^Marco 13:56, December 25, 2012 (UTC)

It was stated to be illusions. Even though they might be the same thing, it'd be speculation to say so RelikzTalk 22:15, December 25, 2012 (UTC)

But in the mangastream translation, it was stated "thought projection" by Makarov. In the official Chinese Tankoubon Vol. 34 that I just bought, it was also translated as "thought projection". The 4 disappeared together only after Ivan was defeated. So...? Seahorse ^Marco 01:18, December 26, 2012 (UTC)

Then if it was stated to be Thought Projection, then that's what is. So yeah, he can use it RelikzTalk 04:19, December 26, 2012 (UTC)

OK. I updated the page, but I don't know whether my edit is accurate. Please check it for me. Thanks a lot. Seahorse ^Marco 05:34, December 26, 2012 (UTC)

Blast thingy

This discussion is closed. The result of this discussion is:
Not a spell.
Please do not edit this discussion.

So I'm sure everyone has noticed this spell. Its manga version is here.

Anyway, do we classify it as a Darkness Magic spell or an Illusion Magic spell? Personally, I was thinking of calling it Dark Blast and putting it under Darkness Magic. Thoughts? Miskos3 Message 18:55, February 9, 2013 (UTC)

Darkness Magic — Dark Blast - Me ga 19:01, February 9, 2013 (UTC)

Support - .:Umy:.

20:57, February 9, 2013 (UTC)

Support - VEN BEDE❦○YO!!!○01:00, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

Support - Bimbo the Great ^{09:44, Feb. 10, 2013 (UTC)}

Support - /// c h o k o ^★ /// m e s s a g e ^★ /// s t a m p : ^★ /// 16:17, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

Oppose - It's not Darkness Magic, it's just an illusion created by Ivan, so people could see "Alexei's" magic. And I also think Laxus' Lightning Punch shouldn't be added to his page, cause it was all an Illusion created and manipulated by Ivan. MiraMajin Talk! 16:37,2/10/2013

Oppose - That's merely an illusion. It was casted by an illusion and employed against an illusion. Besides, why would you classify it as Darkness Magic? It was given a color indicating a possible "dark" source only in the anime. Even if it was created, who would you mark as its user? Ivan was employing his illusions and had them use it; adding it to his page would be like adding Master Hand to Hand Combatant because his illusion overwhelmed Laxus'. Midnight wasn't noted as a Darkness Magic user because his illusion used it (or what looked like it). The same ought to be done here.

-- Aldarinor Talk Contribs 16:54, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

Exactly! :D MiraMajin

Talk! 16:59,2/10/2013

Then how about it being added as sub-type of Illusion Magic?

Illusion Magic:

"Darkness Magic — Dark Blast"

Like this? Sligneris (talk) 17:01, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

"In his illusionary fight against Laxus, Ivan has shown an ability to... etc etc. Whether Ivan is actually capable of performing such a magic/spell is currently unknown."

Can it not be added like that to Ivan's page? The spell page itself would be just: "A user puts their hands together to concentrate dark Magic which is then shot at the target, damaging them."

No need to mention illusion. It's just a spell. Y/N? Miskos3 Message 17:25, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

That's quite a nice idea. Sligneris (talk) 17:27, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

I think it's not necessary. It could be added to the "Description" section: "This ability also gives the user the right of creating illusionary spells." Or something like this. Sorry for bad grammar. :P MiraMajin

Talk! 16:43,2/11/2013

That was an illusion. The only Magic used was illusions. No spell was ever used other than illusions. There is nothing to discuss really... RelikzTalk 23:55, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

agreed with reli Animaltamer⁷

I think I'd actually go with Miskos3's solution. Creating article about spell, and linking to it in description of Ivan's illusion. However it would not be considered as a spell that Ivan is capable of using. Sligneris (talk) 16:07, February 12, 2013 (UTC)

By there is nothing to discuss, I mean there is nothing to discuss. The spell doesn't exist. no page can be created for it because no darkness magic spell was never used, the only Magic used at the time was illusion Magic. Relikz

Talk 20:28, February 12, 2013 (UTC)

New Profile Picture

I can't help but to feel that his current profile picture is somehow... unfit. I don't actually have any proposals right now, but I think we should look around episodes in Grand Magic Games arc and find a better fitting picture... Sligneris (talk) 23:21, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-{{TalkPage}}
+{{TalkPage|1}}
+== Thought Projection ==
-==Striking resemblence!==
-I would like to put the following material in the trivia/background-information:
+I'm wondering if Ivan could use thought projection magic. It might be some kind of illusion magic but it seems exactly like thought projection. In Chapter 287, Makarov also stated that it's some kind of thought projection.
-There is an (in Russia) very famous historical figure, the Zar (Russian king title) Ivan IV (known as Ivan the Terrible). Look also here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_IV_of_Russia. He is famous for being sadistic, cruel, maybe even crazy. He had lost three of his wifes, others he has killed with his own hand. Being a russian, i have investigated, and...
+<span style="background-color:#00ffff;border:2px dotted purple;">[[User:Marco the Marine Admiral|<span style="color:blue;">'''Seahorse'''</span>]]   <sup>[[User talk:Marco the Marine Admiral|<span style="color:black;">'''''Marco'''''</span>]]</sup></span> 13:56, December 25, 2012 (UTC)
-Now the references to Ivan Dreyar:
+It was stated to be illusions. Even though they might be the same thing, it'd be speculation to say so {{User:Rauleli/Sig6}} 22:15, December 25, 2012 (UTC)
-- He killed his own son. In Fairy Tail he plans to do a thing that would kill Laxus.
+But in the [http://www.mangastream.to/fairy-tail-chapter-288-page-17.html mangastream translation], it was stated "thought projection" by Makarov. In the official Chinese Tankoubon Vol. 34 that I just bought, it was also translated as "thought projection". The 4 disappeared together only after Ivan was defeated. So...? <span style="background-color:#00ffff;border:2px dotted purple;">[[User:Marco the Marine Admiral|<span style="color:blue;">'''Seahorse'''</span>]]   <sup>[[User talk:Marco the Marine Admiral|<span style="color:black;">'''''Marco'''''</span>]]</sup></span> 01:18, December 26, 2012 (UTC)
-- The name, of course.
+Then if it was stated to be Thought Projection, then that's what is. So yeah, he can use it {{User:Rauleli/Sig6}} 04:19, December 26, 2012 (UTC)
-- The appearance. Look at his portrait! The black beard is a stereotypical sign of Ivan in Russia.
+OK. I updated the page, but I don't know whether my edit is accurate. Please check it for me. Thanks a lot. <span style="background-color:#00ffff;border:2px dotted purple;">[[User:Marco the Marine Admiral|<span style="color:blue;">'''Seahorse'''</span>]]   <sup>[[User talk:Marco the Marine Admiral|<span style="color:black;">'''''Marco'''''</span>]]</sup></span> 05:34, December 26, 2012 (UTC)
-- An other name of Ivan the Terrible is ''Ivan Black Raven.''
+==Blast thingy==
-- Makarov was planned to be Russian.
+{{Discussion Closed|result=Not a spell.}}
+So I'm sure everyone has noticed [http://oi49.tinypic.com/5lyk5j.jpg this] spell. [http://www.mangastream.to/fairy-tail-chapter-287-page-20.html Its manga version is here.]
+Anyway, do we classify it as a '''Darkness Magic''' spell or an '''Illusion Magic''' spell? Personally, I was thinking of calling it Dark Blast and putting it under Darkness Magic. Thoughts? {{User:Miskos3/Sig1}} 18:55, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
-- The character of course.
+'''{{Support|Darkness Magic — Dark Blast}}''' {{User:Omega natsu2/Sig2}} 19:01, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
-Not enough?
+::{{Support}} {{User:Umnei/Sig1}} 20:57, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
+::{{Support}} {{User:The Venerable Bede/NS}}01:00, February 10, 2013 (UTC)
+::{{Support}} {{User:Bimbo the Great/Sig|09:44, Feb. 10, 2013 (UTC)}}
+::{{Support}} {{User:ChokokuguzaNoTobira/Sig1}} 16:17, February 10, 2013 (UTC)
+{{Oppose}} It's '''not''' Darkness Magic, it's just an illusion created by Ivan, so people could see "Alexei's" magic. And I also think Laxus' Lightning Punch shouldn't be added to his page, cause it was all an Illusion created and manipulated by Ivan. {{User:MiraMajin/sig1}}16:37,2/10/2013
+{{Oppose}} That's merely an illusion. It was casted by an illusion and employed against an illusion. Besides, why would you classify it as '''Darkness Magic'''? It was given a color indicating a possible "dark" source only in the anime. Even if it was created, who would you mark as its user? Ivan was employing his illusions and had them use it; adding it to his page would be like adding '''Master Hand to Hand Combatant''' because his illusion overwhelmed Laxus'. Midnight wasn't noted as a '''Darkness Magic''' user because [[Nightmare|his illusion]] used it (or what looked like it). The same ought to be done here.
-:I'm from Poland, so I also heard about him. If you edit and also shorten it, it could be placed in the Trivia, that's my opinion.[[User:Ishthak|Ishthak]] 15:30, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
-:
-:
-:I'm far away from Indonesia, but I heard Ivan the Terrible left his throne without a fit successor. Correct me if I'm wrong. Fairy Tail's guildmasters are succeeded by blood and Makarov is having problems deciding his successor. I'm saying this just to strengthen trivias. [[Special:Contributions/118.137.78.213|118.137.78.213]] 12:47, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
-:
-:Unless its specificaly stated that those two are meant to be similar, its just speculation. -Umi
+--{{User:Aldarinor/Sig2}} 16:54, February 10, 2013 (UTC)
-== Recent Appearences ==
+:: Exactly! :D {{User:MiraMajin/sig1}}16:59,2/10/2013
+Then how about it being added as sub-type of Illusion Magic?
-So does this Ivan character have any other appearences in the anime?
+:'''[[Illusion Magic]]:'''
-He is bound to have one soon since he is a main antagonist, but talk pages are for having discussions on changes to articles this is better suited for a forum or a blog. <span style="border: 2px solid black; border-top-left-radius:1ex; border-bottom-left-radius:1ex; -moz-border-radius-topleft:1ex; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:3ex;">[[User:IamJakuhoRaikoben|<span style="padding-left:2px; color:black; background-color:gold; border-top-left-radius:1ex; border-bottom-left-radius:1ex; -moz-border-radius-topleft:1ex; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:4ex;cursor:help;" title="IamJakuhoRaikoben">&nbsp;Iam...</span>]]</span><span style="border: 2px solid black; border-top-right-radius:1ex; border-bottom-right-radius:1ex; -moz-border-radius-topright:1ex; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:3ex;">[[User Talk:IamJakuhoRaikoben|<span style="padding-right:2px; color:gold; background-color:black; border-top-right-radius:1ex; border-bottom-right-radius:1ex; -moz-border-radius-topright:1ex; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:4ex;cursor:help;" title="Leave Me A Message">JakuhoRaikoben&nbsp;</span>]]</span> 22:01, April 1, 2011 (UTC)
+:*'''"Darkness Magic — Dark Blast"'''
-== Ivan's name ==
+Like this? [[User:Sligneris|Sligneris]] ([[User talk:Sligneris|talk]]) 17:01, February 10, 2013 (UTC)
-Why was his name suddenly changed to "Iwan"? It's clear that it should be "Ivan" since it's Russian, and he is Makarov's son, Makarov having a Russian name too. [[Special:Contributions/80.167.149.18|80.167.149.18]] 13:00, July 25, 2011 (UTC)
+"In his illusionary fight against Laxus, Ivan has shown an ability to... etc etc. Whether Ivan is actually capable of performing such a magic/spell is currently unknown."
-Because that's the official name given by Mashima from Fairy Tail Volume 14 {{User:Rauleli/Sig2}} 13:12, July 25, 2011 (UTC)
+Can it not be added like that to '''Ivan's page'''? The '''spell page''' itself would be just:
-Don't you mean that's the official name given by Kodansha? [[User:SeaTerror|SeaTerror]] 18:54, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
+"A user puts their hands together to concentrate dark Magic which is then shot at the target, damaging them."
+No need to mention illusion. It's just a spell.
-Mashima apparently gives the official translations of each characters names to Kodansha. {{User:IamJakuhoRaikoben/Sig5|19:50,1/15/2012}}
+Y/N? {{User:Miskos3/Sig1}} 17:25, February 10, 2013 (UTC)
+::That's quite a nice idea. [[User:Sligneris|Sligneris]] ([[User talk:Sligneris|talk]]) 17:27, February 10, 2013 (UTC)
-I really doubt that. I have yet to see any evidence for it. As far as I know he has only romanized two names which are Gajeel and Juvia. [[User:SeaTerror|SeaTerror]] 03:04, January 16, 2012 (UTC)
+::I think it's not necessary. It could be added to the "Description" section: "This ability also gives the user the right of creating illusionary spells." Or something like this. Sorry for bad grammar. :P {{User:MiraMajin/sig1}}16:43,2/11/2013
-[[:File:NamesandWizards.jpg|This notice]] is apparently put at the end of every english volume by Del Rey (previously) and now Kodansha. {{User:IamJakuhoRaikoben/Sig5|03:07,1/16/2012}}
+That was an illusion. The only Magic used was illusions. No spell was ever used other than illusions. There is nothing to discuss really... {{User:Rauleli/Sig6}} 23:55, February 11, 2013 (UTC)
-However, a source has said that '''Iwan''' has switched to '''Ivan''' in volume 16. It could be a mistake by the translator, but we'll see. {{ChaosKnight Sig}} 03:09, January 16, 2012 (UTC)
+agreed with reli {{User:Animaltamer7/Sig16}}
-I meant real proof. I would never accept anything unless Mashima romanized it himself. [[User:SeaTerror|SeaTerror]] 10:40, January 18, 2012 (UTC)
+I think I'd actually go with Miskos3's solution. Creating article about spell, and linking to it in description of Ivan's illusion. However it would not be considered as a spell that Ivan is capable of using. [[User:Sligneris|Sligneris]] ([[User talk:Sligneris|talk]]) 16:07, February 12, 2013 (UTC)
-Ok, I thought this would straighten itself out in short order after volume 16 came out, but apparently I was wrong.
+:By there is nothing to discuss, I mean there is '''nothing''' to discuss. The spell doesn't exist. no page can be created for it because no darkness magic spell was never used, the only Magic used at the time was illusion Magic. {{User:Rauleli/Sig6}} 20:28, February 12, 2013 (UTC)
-His official name is Ivan, Iwan is a mistake.
+== New Profile Picture ==
-Here are the officially released material where his name shows up, Volumes 14, 16, and the anime set volume 4:
+I can't help but to feel that his current profile picture is somehow... unfit. I don't actually have any proposals right now, but I think we should look around episodes in [[Grand Magic Games arc]] and find a better fitting picture... [[User:Sligneris|Sligneris]] ([[User talk:Sligneris|talk]]) 23:21, February 17, 2013 (UTC)
-http://i.imgur.com/9Bn9V.jpg
-Here is where his name first shows up in volume 14, this is where "Iwan" comes from:
-http://i.imgur.com/70ElS.jpg
-Here is Ivan's proper introduction in volume 16, as well as Gajeel mentioning the name to Makarov, as you can see it's been corrected to Ivan at this point:
-http://i.imgur.com/fAgxz.jpg
-http://i.imgur.com/1FkJ7.jpg
-The anime never got it wrong, both Crunchy Roll, and Funimation had it as Ivan in both episodes 45 and 48:
-Rip's of Crunchy Roll's translation:
-http://i.imgur.com/rFpmp.jpg
-http://i.imgur.com/RPVPw.jpg
-Funimation's translation:
-http://i.imgur.com/JLnU9.jpg
-http://i.imgur.com/mhcFg.jpg
-So yeah, 6 out of 7 official translations of his name have it as Ivan, so can we please fix this?
---[[User:ChronoDeus|ChronoDeus]] 04:11, July 11, 2012 (UTC)
-We don't use anime sources, but your volume sources seem undeniable imo. I'll get some other community members to state their opinion and then we can make the switch. Thanks for this help. {{User:IamJakuhoRaikoben/Sig8}}16:40,7/26/2012
-===Voting===
-Okay, so, read the conversation above to get info on this voting. Support if you think the name should be Ivan and Oppose if you think it should Iwan.
-{{Support}} Iwan makes no sense and it's been changed back to Ivan in later volumes. Plus, Mashima went for a Russian theme when naming Makarov and if he went for the same thing when naming Makarov's son, then Ivan makes sense, while Iwan is nonsense. {{User:IamJakuhoRaikoben/Sig8}}16:48,7/26/2012
-{{Support}} I never liked Iwan anyways. If it's Ivan now, I think we should go with that.
-{{User:Ultraprime2/Sig|16:57,7/26/2012}} 16:57, July 26, 2012 (UTC)
-{{Support}} Actually, if we went by Russian pronunciation, then "Iwan" would be pronounced "Ivan". But I like Ivan better {{User:Rauleli/Sig6}} 18:18, July 26, 2012 (UTC)
-{{Hidden|Click show to read Reli whoring around|
-:[[Wikipedia:Ivan the Terrible|Ivan is a name.]] Iwan isn't. {{User:IamJakuhoRaikoben/Sig8}}18:22,7/26/2012
-::[[Wikipedia:Iwan (disambiguation)|Iwans...]] {{User:Rauleli/Sig6}} 18:25, July 26, 2012 (UTC)
-:::http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110904040557/messaging/images/b/b5/Emoticon_indifferent.png And how many of those people are Russian? None. Ivan the terrible is Russian and is a well known figure in history. There's even a village in Russia named Ivan. Ergo, Ivan would fit a Russian theme and Iwan wouldn't. {{User:IamJakuhoRaikoben/Sig8}}18:32,7/26/2012
-::::Who the hell cares? Mashima said he wanted to give a Russian theme to Makarov, not to his son. {{User:Rauleli/Sig6}} 18:35, July 26, 2012 (UTC)
-:::::-____- Which is why I said "''if he went for the same thing with Makarov's son.''" I never said that he did. If you didn't care, then you shouldn't have commented. That simple. {{User:IamJakuhoRaikoben/Sig8}}18:37,7/26/2012
-:::::: BUT I wanted to whore around and there's nothing you can do about it! *whores around some more* {{User:Rauleli/Sig6}} 18:40, July 26, 2012 (UTC)
-:::::::But what about the children?http://images.wikia.com/fairytail/images/2/22/Sad.gif{{User:IamJakuhoRaikoben/Sig8}}18:42,7/26/2012
-::::::::Send them to Rem! XD {{User:Rauleli/Sig6}} 18:45, July 26, 2012 (UTC)
-}}
-{{Support}} ''Gomu Gomu no... JETTO GATORINGU!!!''
---{{User:Aldarinor/Sig2}} 18:21, July 26, 2012 (UTC)
-{{Support}} Ivan {{User:Miskos3/Sig1}} 18:40, July 26, 2012 (UTC)
-{{Support}} My volumes also have the same correction. It starts with Iwan and then it's changed to Ivan, which seems the correct. {{User:Guilherme Abe/Sig1}} 19:15,7/26/2012
-{{Support}}{{User:Omega natsu2/Sig2}} 00:10, July 27, 2012 (UTC)
-{{Support}} My volumes have the same correction, like Abe{{User:ToshiroFanGirl/Sig}}10:42, July 27, 2012 (UTC)
-{{Support}} Meh, both names are fine, except Ivan is easier to pronounce (in my god-awful British accent) so let's go with that one...<br>{{User:TheCarrotSaysYumYum/Sig1}} 09:46, July 27, 2012 (UTC)
-{{Neutral}} All of his names are complicated Sometimes Iwan, Iwas, Ivan {{User:Ako yumaseikigi/sig2}}<span style="padding-left:5px">10:14,7/27/2012</span>