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Irene vs. Eileen

This discussion is closed. The result of this discussion is:
Irene
Please do not edit this discussion.

Header says it all really. Just doing this preemptively, because undoubtedly some random user/anon will do it otherwise, and may as well get it over and done with. Yadda yadda Eileen in Stream's translation, and Irene in Crunchy's. Discuss for formalities sake. Derax PaganiTartaros 21:54, April 25, 2016 (UTC)

Irene

  1. Support Support - Derax PaganiTartaros 21:54, April 25, 2016 (UTC)
  2. Support Support - just makes the most sense NcduruRavens wallpaper (2) 09:37, April 27, 2016 (UTC)
  3. Support Support - :Umnei:Juvia'sPictureForUmneiSignature 12:10, April 27, 2016 (UTC)
  4. Support Support - Finally DispellingSiegrain ChibiMage20:38,4/27/2016
  5. Support Support - (Singsweet23 (talk) 03:31, April 28, 2016 (UTC))
  6. Support Support - Miskos3 Message 19:58, April 28, 2016 (UTC)

Eileen

Comments

Let's wait for Chaos. If Chaos says both are viable translations, then we vote. But not until then-- God · Pray · 21:58,4/25/2016 

I'm all for waiting fam. Me and Duel was gonna propose a vote anyway but better to wait for Chaos & crunchy NcduruRavens wallpaper (2) 00:57, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

Not impossible to delete a vote if it turns out one's invalid, but I agree with you both on the matter Derax PaganiTartaros 10:00, April 26, 2016 (UTC)

Last Name

This discussion is closed. The result of this discussion is:
Belserion
Please do not edit this discussion.

With crunchy's version released here's all the viable last names for her:

Belserion (stream/crunchy)
  1. Support Support - NcduruRavens wallpaper (2) 09:37, April 27, 2016 (UTC)
  2. Support Support - :Umnei:Juvia'sPictureForUmneiSignature 12:10, April 27, 2016 (UTC)
  3. Support Support - Onfire.gif Wonder Talk 14:33,4/27/2016
  4. Support Support - Derax PaganiTartaros 15:24, April 27, 2016 (UTC)
  5. Support Support - DisneySeggewys (talk) 19:02, April 27, 2016 (UTC)
  6. Support Support - DispellingSiegrain ChibiMage20:38,4/27/2016
  7. Support Support - Miskos3 Message 19:58, April 28, 2016 (UTC)
Berserion (wrath)
  1. Support Support - (Singsweet23 (talk) 03:30, April 28, 2016 (UTC))
Belselion (current/translated)
Comments

Alias

This discussion is closed. The result of this discussion is:
Scarlet Despair
Please do not edit this discussion.

Just to be proper, here's all the viable aliases for her:

Scarlet Despair (current/stream/translated)
  1. Support Support - Wtf is Scourge... That doesn't fit AT ALL. Sometimes I wonder if Crunchy checks Stream and goes, ok guys, our stuff has to be different. I mean, wat. Only the tertiary meaning is 'calamity'. Miskos3 Message 12:00, April 27, 2016 (UTC)
  2. Support Support - How exactly do we get away with trying to use a false tl? .-. --Sane Lunatic (talk) 13:06, April 27, 2016 (UTC)
  3. Support Support - I agree with sane on this, crunchy isn't always right just cause it's the official tl.. peep how they started using Alvarez over Alberth, which ain't even a real word. We can still have this open cause people already voted but if Chaos nixes it then it's whatever NcduruRavens wallpaper (2) 14:12, April 27, 2016 (UTC)
  4. Support Support - Onfire.gif Wonder Talk 14:32,4/27/2016
  5. Support Support - Umy trusts Estella May for translations, I trust Umy. 'Nuff reason for me. Derax PaganiTartaros 21:12, April 27, 2016 (UTC)
  6. Support Support - I prefer Scourge aesthetically but if Estella thinks Despair is best, I'll trust her :Umnei:Juvia'sPictureForUmneiSignature 21:18, April 27, 2016 (UTC)
Scarlet Scourge (crunchy)
  1. Support Support - I'm going with Crunchy DispellingSiegrain ChibiMage20:38,4/27/2016
  2. Support Support - I just don't like the other suggestion... (Singsweet23 (talk) 03:32, April 28, 2016 (UTC))
Comments

I'll bandwagon for her alias, both sound dope af to me. Feels like this vote will get dirty but might as well get it out of the way NcduruRavens wallpaper (2) 09:37, April 27, 2016 (UTC)

Why can't it mean punishment? all 5 meanings of Scourge make sense :Umnei:Juvia'sPictureForUmneiSignature 12:11, April 27, 2016 (UTC)

not even sure, these the only ones I've seen in general on tumblr and manga sites NcduruRavens wallpaper (2) 12:17, April 27, 2016 (UTC)

As far as titles go, Scourge is far more prevalent (and meaningful) than Despair. It doesn't even need to be about judgement/punishment. It can simply mean a source of devastation/affliction.

However, can somebody confirm that Scourge is a proper tl? Always associated zetsubou with despair... --Sane Lunatic (talk) 12:22, April 27, 2016 (UTC)

That's what I'm saying, Crunchy is just being unnecessarily fancy. <_< The link I posted above doesn't even mention despair as one of the meanings, only calamity as the closest meaning... And even that is its third meaning. Miskos3 Message 12:30, April 27, 2016 (UTC)
So scourge is an improper tl? Then how is this a discussion? Just keep it Scarlet Despair and label Scarlet Scourge as a false tl, right? .-. --Sane Lunatic (talk) 12:35, April 27, 2016 (UTC)
Because Crunchy used it. .-. I mean, I was trying to look up the meanings of the word 'Scourge' and it doesn't seem to be a synonym to despair in any way. And at the same time, 'zetsubou' came out as 'despair' or 'hopelesness'. Both Stream and the ppl translating the spoilers used 'Despair'. Pls let's just stick to the actual meaning Miskos3 Message 12:45, April 27, 2016 (UTC)
Honestly, if this is the case, I don't think this should even be a discussion. Crunchy using it means shit. Those guys called the Flying Dragon Squad Dragon Flight Force. They're not infallible. I don't see how Crunchy using a dubious tl warrants it being considered correct. Still, I guess I'll play along... --Sane Lunatic (talk) 13:06, April 27, 2016 (UTC)
Yep Miskos3 Message 21:08, April 27, 2016 (UTC)

Deleted Votes

  1. Support Support - Scourge :Umnei:Juvia&#039;sPictureForUmneiSignature 12:10, April 27, 2016 (UTC)

Enchanting Page

Shouldn't you guys make a separate page for her enchanting? I mean, you can count that as a separate magic or whatever, y'know - keep things organized. Super Kami Guru (Swiggity swass, I'm gonna violate 'dat ass!) 14:46, June 15, 2016 (UTC)

Except it may not really be. Wendy was also called an enchanter - she can boost offence/defence of her targets, but her magic is still a Sky Dragon Slayer Magic. While this is merely my interpretation of what we've seen in the last few chapters, Irene's reconstruction magic simply allows her to 'enchant' her surroundings for different effects. I do see a paragraph for enchanting alone in her article, but meh, hopefully more light will be shed on her abilities soon. Miskos3 Message 14:58, June 15, 2016 (UTC)

Okay, fair enough. It was a suggestion I had after seeing how it was counted as two separate magics. In the latest chapter. Super Kami Guru (Swiggity swass, I'm gonna violate 'dat ass!) 16:32, June 15, 2016 (UTC)

once we get more info bro you could be right, but enchantment is cool to be an ability for now. I'm actually trying to get the kanji/romanji stuff for it.. wendy's page will probably need the enchantment ability added too NcduruRavens wallpaper (2) 16:37, June 15, 2016 (UTC)

And again, Wendy's magic is Sky Dragon Slayer magic. Enchanting is just a description how her spell works, they improve or change the target. Miskos3 Message 16:42, June 15, 2016 (UTC)

ooooooooo bet bet that makes sense NcduruRavens wallpaper (2) 16:44, June 15, 2016 (UTC)

So? Does it still count as a separate ability by itself or fall under Universe One? Super Kami Guru (Swiggity swass, I'm gonna violate 'dat ass!) 17:03, June 15, 2016 (UTC)

separate, universe one is what she was preparing and just used in the latest chapter... enchanting/enchantment was what she did when she changed zonia's climate and attacked acno with NcduruRavens wallpaper (2) 17:13, June 15, 2016 (UTC)

... I'm trying to tell you that it's one magic Miskos3 Message 17:19, June 15, 2016 (UTC)

Okay, this arguing isn't getting us anywhere. Let's wait for a chapter or two to come out and deliberate then. Super Kami Guru (Swiggity swass, I'm gonna violate 'dat ass!) 17:22, June 15, 2016 (UTC)

lol nah I'm not arguing at all, just thought that's how it looked to me. misk I believe she used her enchantment to go along with her universe one, but the fireball and earth fissure thing she attacked acno with was just a regular enchantment of the air and ground, that's how I took it NcduruRavens wallpaper (2) 17:32, June 15, 2016 (UTC)

Seems like Irene's ability is named Enchant. She injects her Magic Power into pretty much anything (maybe even sentient beings) and manipulates them according to her will. This thing should get a page. We have enough info about it. Also, Universe One comes under this Magic/Ability.

That's what I got from the raws anyway. Would greatly appreciate somebody who can make sense of raws stepping up here until Lady Chaos and Wrath become active again. --Sane Lunatic (talk) 08:25, June 21, 2016 (UTC)

No, her magic works by enchanting things, aka putting her magic into things. Miskos3 Message 08:34, June 21, 2016 (UTC)

Yes, she adds Magic to stuff. That ability is called Enchant. It's named, y'know... With differing kanji and kata and everything. .-. Unless I'm misunderstanding the raws, in which case a clarification would be appreciated. <(__)> --Sane Lunatic (talk) 08:45, June 21, 2016 (UTC)

No, it's not. We don't call Wendy's spell Enchant either even though she's been called an enchanter, it's still Sky Dragon Slayer magic. Why do I need to repeat myself... Miskos3 Message 08:49, June 21, 2016 (UTC)

Hmmm, any idea where Wendy has been called an enchantress? Wanna check out raws to see if the case is the same as here... --Sane Lunatic (talk) 08:52, June 21, 2016 (UTC)

Ezel did it in their fight Miskos3 Message 09:13, June 21, 2016 (UTC)

Actually, 'Enchant' is a verb that Wendy used in her fight with Ezel to activate her buffing spells. Therefore to call Irene's ability 'Enchant' is incorrect. It was fine and correct as the romaji-less Enchantment, which not-so-coincidentally was the way I had arranged it for such a reason. Irene is an enchantress, and how enchanting works based solely on how the series has presented it so far is like Misk said: enchanting is just a skill that works based on one inserting their magic/magic power into someone or something. Ffs, putting lightning in lacrima is enchanting; Irene put her magic power into the air and made it explode, for instance, and Wendy inserts her magic into people and gives them buffs. Officially, she has no single named magic except Universe One, and her enchanting stuff is a magical feat, but it's not something that should get a page, because what would we put in it? Not much of relevance. It's not an ability. It's not a technique. It's not a magic in and of itself. Things are fine as they are, and please stop calling the ability 'Enchant' and revert it to 'Enchantment'.
WrathRogue ChibiZero 14:21, June 21, 2016 (UTC)

There are curses like the Tartaros members use, then there is a magic called Curse and then we have Zeref's curse which is not like neither of the first two. So why can't Wendy's buff be called "Enchant" and Irene's magic "Enchantment" at the same time? Where does it say imbuing lightining into lacrima is called "enchantment" and if it's a skill that any mage can do why does Acno say Irene "you apparently learned your magic from Zeref himself". Klainatta (talk) 21:52, July 10, 2016 (UTC)

Should we also make a page for Invoke? That's what Makarov said when he activated Fairy Law. Well, no, we shouldn't. Wendy's Enchant is the same. Miskos3 Message 22:18, July 10, 2016 (UTC)

Here's a suggestion. List it as a fighting style, like with Curses. It's much easier this way, seeing how this conversation is going nowhere. Also, the concept of Enchanting is very broad in general and can be applied to anything or anyone, as stated in previous comments. Super Kami Guru (Swiggity swass, I'm gonna violate 'dat ass!) 23:10, July 10, 2016 (UTC)

That doesn't even work. It's not a fighting style. It's literally just what some things do and how some things work. In case you didn't figure it out, Universe One is a type of magic that enchants. Wendy's magic is also one that enchants. Acnologia was being extremely broad when he was talking to Irene, which is just a polite way of me saying that you're all reading way too much into this. There is no page going to be made for this. Like Misk said, unless you all want to make a page for "Invoke!" then just let it die.
WrathRogue ChibiZero 01:18, July 11, 2016 (UTC)

Irene said in Chapter 508 that Wendy used an "Enchantment Magic" and Wendy was able to cancel her spell. So it's still not a magic ? Musicfilia (talk) 22:18, November 7, 2016 (UTC)

Blatant mistranslation. In the raw, she says quite simply "An enchantment?!" not "Enchantment magic." This is why we look at the japanese source before possibly making changes like this.
WrathRogue ChibiZero 23:20, November 8, 2016 (UTC)

Alias

So... noticed that High Enchanter has been added as an alias here. To me, it seems more like a Mage classification. May I remove the alias and add the class to the Mages page or am I the only one who thinks so? --Sane Lunatic (talk) 08:25, June 21, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, it's flat out what she is, not an alias. It's not like people go around calling her 'High Enchantress Irene!', Acnologia was just stating that that's the kind of mage she is. You're correct, and changes can be made as you have suggested.
WrathRogue ChibiZero 14:22, June 21, 2016 (UTC)

Fight

Can someone please add the page for her fight with Acnologia already? (96.240.41.48 22:32, July 5, 2016 (UTC))

you r free to do it :)--73.191.17.103 11:46, July 6, 2016 (UTC)

Universe One vs Enchantment

Hey I never really understood why we have to separate these two things. Universe One is clearly a sub of Enchantment. It is activated first by **enchanting** the whole land. Plus, the description of Eileen's enchantment is **detaching and attaching**, in Universe One, we've clearly seen that she somehow detached the people of Fiore into their current places and attached them to the new one. Also, she did attach the Tenrou Island to the mainland.

49.144.249.157 10:11, July 21, 2016 (UTC)

She attaches and detaches magic, not people or things. In any case, the description does say Universe One works through enchanting the land. Miskos3 Message 14:16, July 24, 2016 (UTC)

Mucus Magic and Magical Bands

Should we add that Irene is a user of the aforementioned. considering she used them to torture Mirajane, even though she melted Heine and Juliet's original forms to do it? Super Kami Guru (Swiggity swass, I'm gonna violate 'dat ass!) 22:39, July 23, 2016 (UTC)

I don't think she can use it maybe she enchanted Heine and Juliet and made them use it when they were swords Hewa Fort (talk) 18:56, August 18, 2016 (UTC) yes though as a holder not a caster.--Delta3000 (talk) 22:01, October 2, 2016 (UTC)

513 Reveal

Can we add in the new info now, such as her template that she is Erza's mother, or her past as well. CoolJazzman (talk) 07:47, December 6, 2016 (UTC)

I would rather wait for another week to see how literal this mother things is going to be. NoNickNeeded (talk) 08:37, December 6, 2016 (UTC)

I don't think anybody necessarily waited a week to make sure after it was indicated that Mavis was Larcade's mother, or even that Zeref was his father when we weren't sure if he was a construct or anything either. Its been outright stated by the character at this point.--Doragon3 (talk) 17:46, December 6, 2016 (UTC)

I was against those two being changed in a hurry too. ^^ NoNickNeeded (talk) 17:55, December 6, 2016 (UTC)

The only thing that shouldn't be added is the queen of the dragons bullshit. If Irene says she is Erza's mother when they look the same, then that is how it will be listed until proven otherwise. That's how wikis are supposed to operate.
WrathRogue ChibiZero 23:41, December 6, 2016 (UTC)

I know this won't change anything, but I'd still like to point out that Irene also said "I am you and you are me"[1] which is in direct contradiction to "I am your mother", at least in the classical, biological parentage sense. NoNickNeeded (talk) 06:41, December 7, 2016 (UTC)

I was confused by that statement, but given Irene philosophical side, she probably meant they are the "same", because they share the "same blood"CoolJazzman (talk) 07:28, December 7, 2016 (UTC)

More on Personailty

Can someone add how she used to be a more gentle caring person before, and how she is a bit sensitive about her age, as she quickly got the girls back on topic of the story, when Erza pointed out her age appearance CoolJazzman (talk) 16:56, December 12, 2016 (UTC) However as seen is chapter 519 Irene could not bring herself to kill Erza even after she sliced her dragon scales. This shows the Irene still has a bit of her original personality remaining. (EternalTheMoon (talk) 01:39, January 28, 2017 (UTC))

Irene's FORMER personality

Should we not list information about Irene's original personality 400 years ago? She was not portrayed as a sadistic witch worthy of the title "Scarlet Despair" back then, lol. In fact, she appeared to be more selfless, as seen when she gave Belserion the idea of turning his back on them, because she believed his debt had already been paid. I think this info should be listed in her personality section. (47.150.115.219 05:37, December 14, 2016 (UTC))

It'll be taken care of. It's only been a day.
WrathRogue ChibiZero 05:50, December 14, 2016 (UTC)

Could you also add in, how Irene is a bit sensitive about her age, I found it a bit funny, when Erza quickly pointed out how she doesn't look over 400 years old, but Irene quickly turned around at such a pace, she wanted to avoid talking about itCoolJazzman (talk) 11:11, December 15, 2016 (UTC)

Dragon Slayer Magic

For her Magic and Abilities section should we add that she knows/knew dragon slayer magic considering she is the one that invented it and based on her dragon roar it's element is fire so Fire Dragon Slayer Magic?Starpower98 (talk) 22:50, December 20, 2016 (UTC)

Irene has no element. All dragon roars cause explosions. It's just destruction.
WrathRogue ChibiZero 00:40, December 21, 2016 (UTC)

Is "Flower Circle" an Enchantment spell? Aldencelic (talk) 21:07, December 21, 2016 (UTC)

Irene Belserion abilities

With Irene now fused with Wendy (Please add that to their pages I can't) is it possible that Irene can still use her magics with Wendy's?

Godofwar99 (talk) 00:57, December 28, 2016 (UTC) Godofwar99

I'm sorry but...what? (47.150.115.219 04:03, December 28, 2016 (UTC))

More to Trivia

Just thought for Trivia, should we add this little bit of info I found, did you know that Irene (Ири́на, Irina) is a very popular name in Russia. It means Peace. (Which is ironic considering her current personality) CoolJazzman (talk) 10:23, December 28, 2016 (UTC)

Things to add

Can we add the following things to her page now:

Minor things:

Personality: Maybe put in how she is a bit sensitive about her age, as she quickly brushed aside when Erza question her age appearance, when she revealed she is over 400 years old. (That was funny)

Trivia: Maybe mention how "Irene" means "Peace" in Russian, seems a appropriate ironic, giving her current personality.

Major things:

Magic and Abilities: Master-Melee-Specialist: She was able to fight against Erza and parry with every swing she made, while Erza was using three swords, and Irene was using only her staff.

Immense Durability: More her monstrous Durabilty, she took a hit by Wendy in Dragon Force Mode, and a slash by Erza to the gut, but kept standing, and had only minor slashes. Then even more amazing, she took a strike on the head from an enhanced Red-Black Twin Blades from Erza, and not only did she withstood it, she didn't even move an inch, just took it like it was nothing.

Hand-To-Hand Combatant: She displayed a bit in 517, while she is using Wendy Body, she was able to kick Erza away at perfect timing.

Dragon Slayer Magic: Could also add in, despite only just entering Wendy body, she was able to use her powers almost as good as Wendy herself, as the creator of Dragon Slayer Magic, its makes sense she knows the functions of it. CoolJazzman (talk) 08:39, January 15, 2017 (UTC)

Responses in the order you have listed:

  • No, she was telling a story and Erza was being rude, lmao. She was telling her to shut up.
  • It's not really appropriate. My name means like two different things, both of which are religious, for instance. Unless there's some kind of blatant significance between her name and what she does, I don't think it really matters. Irene isn't like Minerva or Atlas Flame.
  • We don't have melee specialist and hand-to-hand combatant. They are the same thing. Irene would end up having a unique kind of classification as an master weapons specialist, as she can use her staff to defend herself to block and parry a master swordsman like Era.
  • Durability should be added, yes.
  • Proficiency can be added, yes, but I'm not sure if under DSM or somewhere else.


WrathRogue ChibiZero 11:58, January 15, 2017 (UTC)

In response: - It was a bit of both, she was it was more like "Shut up, I telling the story here, not how old I am", (Its not a big deal or anything, just thought it would be fun to add it in).

- Doesn't really matter though, just thought it was interesting to put in, since Irene used to be a kind and peaceful person before.

- Oh sorry, I thought melee always meant with weapons, I meant master weapons specialist like Gray.

- I would say DSM, because use is using it so it goes with it.

Thanks man!!CoolJazzman (talk) 14:01, January 15, 2017 (UTC)


im a newbee]

i really dont know much but from this article, i feel that these comics and charactors can relate to people on a sertant level not only because of what goes on in these comics but as well as what going on in our world n how we precieve it because in my world n growing up where im from theres magic everywhere.--71.222.155.227 04:23, February 7, 2017 (UTC)LadyLawless

Irene's Death?

Hi everyone, I just wanted to know why Irene has not been added to the deceased character list. She has clearly killed herself, and I doubt wendy would heal (which I doubt she can do in her condition) the woman who almost killed her and Erza.98.167.59.188 06:17, February 10, 2017 (UTC) Kevinixi538

Because there is no proof whether she's dead or alive. We've seen loads of people stabbed through the chest or gut and survive even without medical aid. That's why we usually wait a few chapters to change someone's status to deceased unless there's some actual proof. NoNickNeeded (talk) 07:41, February 10, 2017 (UTC)

I thought the proof was that all her magic disappeared. The stereotype in all series with magic is that enchantments all come undone when the user dies. Irene decided to commit suicide by stabbing herself, then all her work disappeared. There's more evidence towards her death than not. I think you're overthinking it.
WrathRogue ChibiZero 19:28, February 10, 2017 (UTC)

We had plenty of cases where magic effects disappeared from the caster being knocked unconscious without dying, so her enchantments coming undone is not proof. And Ultear stabbed herself in pretty much the same spot in her suicide attempt after confessing to Meredy without dying. I strongly advice to wait at the very least until the next chapter is released (or two if the news about a double-chapter is correct, which would help even more). NoNickNeeded (talk) 23:40, February 10, 2017 (UTC)

Again, there is more evidence she is dead in this particular instance. We won't see her again; the focus has shifted completely. The whole point of everything being undone and her falling was to show that Irene died. The imagery is important. It's gonna be changed. Our job is to post what's correct right now, and then change later if necessary. If we waited for someone to say "yeah they're dead" every time then nobody would be listed as deceased and we'd look like fools.
WrathRogue ChibiZero 01:24, February 11, 2017 (UTC)

You guys did do the same for Juvia when we thought she was dead, right? Just listed her as deceased until we were proven otherwise. Isn't Irene in the same situation? Plus, didn't it say in the beginning headline of chapter 520 that she committed suicide, or something along the lines of that?--101bijou (talk) 10:23, February 12, 2017 (UTC)

^ YES! I am literally begging you admins to change her status already, because it's been two weeks and her page is so outdated. (172.56.39.6 21:53, February 13, 2017 (UTC))

infobox update

Hey can someone eligible change the "is" to "was" in her introductory paragraph and then also move her current occupation to previous? Her page is locked due to incessant vandalism probably so I cannot edit it. Thanks!--SageSlayer (talk) 16:00, February 16, 2017 (UTC)

And add categories: Former Members of Spriggan 12 + Former Dragon Slayers 188.125.129.161 23:22, February 16, 2017 (UTC)
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