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Weapon

This discussion is closed. The result of this discussion is:
The Demon Blade Crimson Sakura is a Magic Item; a sword. The article will be altered accordingly.
Please do not edit this discussion.

Following a discussion on chat a week or so ago, I'd thought I'd bring this up here for discussion and consideration. Benisakura is currently classed as a spell here, however given how it has appeared in the story (both versions), it seems to be more of a magical weapon rather than a spell. What do you reckon? Inept Wiki User (talk) 17:24, November 21, 2015 (UTC)

Support Support - It's Erza's sword for this 'armor'. I don't understand why it was a spell anyway.
WrathRogue ChibiZero 17:54, November 21, 2015 (UTC)

Support Support - I even remember Happy calling the individual blade in the anime; 'Benisakura' during the Pandemonium event Derax PaganiTartaros 17:58, November 21, 2015 (UTC)

Support Support - ^^NcduruRavens wallpaper (2) 21:04, November 21, 2015 (UTC)

Support Support - This is classified as spell? Wow. DispellingJellal chibiMage21:10,11/21/2015

Support Support - Honestly, wtf. Onfire.gif Wonder Talk 22:23,11/22/2015

Support Support - Now we just need to make a page for flame pants-- God · Pray · 23:01,11/22/2015 

Support Support - HamodyKeyes FT siteAsgail 20:49, November 23, 2015 (UTC)

Support Support - I'm still wondering why we don't have one for the flame pants. Holorogium (no backgriund)Animaltamer7Horologium Key10:04, November 24, 2015 (UTC)

Armor

This discussion is closed. The result of this discussion is:
Flame Pants get a page.
Please do not edit this discussion.

I saw it above a couple times but what did y'all want to do with the flame pants? Seems only right to make it an armor and attach this sword as its weapon NcduruRavens wallpaper (2) 14:37, November 26, 2015 (UTC)

I'm all for it. Should have been made long ago; it's a kind of armor like all the others, in my opinion that is. Anyway, it's silly to have a page for the weapon she uses whilst in the Flame Pants-armor and not a page for the armor itself. Onfire.gif Wonder Talk 14:52,11/26/2015

Yup and seeing how everyone's cool with it I doubt this needs a vote just someone (other from me lol) to make it NcduruRavens wallpaper (2) 15:00, November 26, 2015 (UTC)

If I recall correctly, there was a discussion regarding an article for the Clear Heart Clothing (, Seishin no Koromo) at some point, though I can't quite recall what came up during it... Inept Wiki User (talk) 15:04, November 26, 2015 (UTC)

Benisakura is used alongside Clear Heart Clothing by Erza because CHC doesn't require any magic upkeep and provides no defence. They aren't a set, imo. I'd say just mention that it can be used, rather than add it to an Equipment secton. --Sane Lunatic (talk) 15:56, November 26, 2015 (UTC)

Yes, Clear Hear Clothing needs a page. It is her most used requip. The argument against it was that its just clothing and not actual armor so we dont need to make a page for it but we have Seduction Armor, which is just clothing as well. Go ahead and make the page-- God · Pray · 21:04,11/26/2015 

Well, I would do it, but since I did the blade, I thought someone else could to the armor. I got so much school-crap to work with, I ain't got time for flame pants. Onfire.gif Wonder Talk 22:00,11/26/2015

Uhhhh no. This definitely needs a discussion. Firstly, let's stop pretending and calling it an armor, it's not. It's a pair of pants and bandages that provide no offensive, defensive, or magical benefits. Her using it often doesn't magically make it an armor. If anything, it should get a brief mention in her equipment section or something, but definitely not its own page. And God, that argument is not valid. Seduction Armor is an armor because it was called an armor. We don't know what effects, if any, the Seduction Armor has or doesn't have because it was only briefly mentioned, so saying that it's just clothing is false. And where exactly did the name Clear Heart Clothing come from? Iam...    JakuhōRaikōben02:56,11/27/2015

We're using the definition of armor very loosely already. Just because Seduction Armor was called armor doesnt make it any less of just clothing as the Clear Heart Clothing. We have a page for Seduction Armor and you say that its because we dont know if it has magical properties or not. Well, we also have a page for Heart Kreuz Armor which has no magical properties and is only an armor because its made of metal. The fact of the matter is we have two other "armors" which dont have any magical properties and only have pages because they are called armor. If Clear Heart was called Clear Heart Armor, would it be okay to make a page then? Its her most used requip and is not mentioned anywhere. We have more info about it than Seduction armor and it would work fine as a page-- God · Pray · 05:02,11/27/2015 
Lol, what? If something is called an armor, then it is an armor. It's not our job to question that. It doesn't have to be bulky and metal to be considered an armor. Or are you suggesting that the Flight Armor and Robe of Yuen aren't armors? Also, the presence of Magical properties isn't why seduction armor or any other armor deserve pages. They deserve pages because they are named, legitimate armors. As opposed to this Clear Heart Clothing which is just a pair of pants and bandages. And again I ask, where did this supposed name "Clear Heart Clothing" come from? I know for a fact it was never mentioned in the manga. Iam...    JakuhōRaikōben05:17,11/27/2015
Its from a volume extra or something, ask Chaos or Wrath. But your argument boils down to Clear Heart cant have a page because its called clothing and not armor despite it being exactly like seduction armor (a pair of panties and a shirt) or Heart Kreuz armor (a metal chest piece). Why do only requips named armor get pages? What if in the future Erza requips to something like Super Mega Destructo clothing and blows people up? Will we not make a page for it purely because its clothing? Either make a page for Clear Heart Clothing or delete Heart Kreuz and Seduction because you can play semantics all you want but all three are just clothing with no magical properties. If one deserves a page they all do-- God · Pray · 06:20,11/27/2015 

"Volume extra or something" In other words you don't know and are just parroting what that random guy above called it? And no, Flipsy, you aren't listening. I'm saying that Clear Heart shouldn't have a page because A) It's not named. Now, if this Clear Heart name bullshit is indeed a real name then I'm wrong. However, as of now, that name is completely unconfirmed and I've never heard it before. B) It has no Magical properties. Now this wouldn't be a problem if it were armor or a weapon or something. But as it stands, it's just clothing. Random, unnamed clothing. And we don't make pages for clothing. Unless you want to make pages for the various outfits we've seen throughout the series? And please stop trying to lump Clear Heart in the same boat as Erza's Seduction Armor and Heart Kreuz Armor. Those are named armors. Clear Heart is nothing more than unnamed (until confirmed), clothing. At most it deserves a mention in Erza's equipment. :/ Iam...    JakuhōRaikōben06:57,11/27/2015

Don't know about volume extras and whatnot, but it is named in a Game. Before anybody questions the validity of Game names, let me remind people that we have quite a few Spells and suchlike named from the Games. --Sane Lunatic (talk) 07:05, November 27, 2015 (UTC)

Let me expand on this by saying not only do we have spells named from games, but we also undeleted a spell specifically because a game gave it a name.-- God · Pray · 07:27,11/27/2015 

I remember specifically that it has a name in Zeref's Awakening. And personally, I do not care if it is simply clothing. It is her most used Requip, and what's noteworthy about it is the lack of magical abilities. It allows her to fight completely unhindered, which is the most notable thing about the armor, really. It allows her to use swords like Benizakura.
WrathRogue ChibiZero 07:25, November 27, 2015 (UTC)

Us providing random unnamed spells with names from Video Games doesn't make them canon names. It's just one step up from us calling them something of our own design. And are you guys even hearing yourselves? What's noteworthy about clothing is that it lacks magic abilities?! What kind of backwards nonsense is that. The same can be said about any clothing. Or if she came in to battle butt ass naked. The clothing (not armor) doesn't "allow" her to do anything. Her not wearing a Magical armor is what allows her to use Benizakura. If she came out wearing a damn bunny suit the same result would be achieved. Iam...    JakuhōRaikōben07:43,11/27/2015

I think we should skip the fucking bullshit and just vote, because we're only going to go back and forth and it's going to get annoying. Even more than it already is.
WrathRogue ChibiZero 07:49, November 27, 2015 (UTC)

Ah, and by "fucking bullshit" would you mean actually discussing this completely and utterly nonsensical proposal? Fine by me. Iam...    JakuhōRaikōben07:53,11/27/2015

I mean this topic has been discussed multiple times and we always argue the same things back and forth. It's a headache and a half. There's nothing to "discuss completely" when all we do is go in circles. This is almost entirely opinion-based. Your opinion is that it shouldn't have a page, and you have story-related content to support your claim. My, and others', opinions is that it should and we have story-related (and other) content supporting our claim. It's cyclic, it's annoying, it's pointless. All we're doing is politely calling the other person an idiot in a real roundabout fashion.

Also, your claim on video game names is tantamount to saying that because we shouldn't do it for this piece of something, then we shouldn't do it it all. So...stuff that we've named using names from official Fairy Tail forms of media should either be deleted or renamed to unofficial names? Because this is one of those cases where we either do it all, or we don't do it all. Period. You can't do it for a bunch of others and then claim that we can't do it for one just because you don't want it to be so, but that's a discussion for later.
WrathRogue ChibiZero 08:03, November 27, 2015 (UTC)

Yes, Wrath. In case you were unaware, that's what the hell discussions are. Places where people exchange opinions in the hopes of reaching a conclusion or at least helping other parties in deciding how to vote. I'd hardly call it pointless. And no. Who the hell said anything about renaming the other pages? And who said that if this page was created we wouldn't use the video game name? If you'd read my statements carefully, you'd see that I said that video games names are a step up from our unofficial names. However I don't consider them canon because they didn't come from Mashima. Iam...    JakuhōRaikōben08:15,11/27/2015

Yes Rai, discussions are used to reach consensus. However, when it's clear no consensus and middle ground are going to be reached, it's much less frustrating to just skip all the "exchanging of opinions" and just go right to the vote and get it done and over with. Because right now, all I see for this topic are a bunch of messages that tell me different ways on how to say the same thing to someone. Nobody is saying anything new to add to the conversation, or helping move things along in any way.
WrathRogue ChibiZero 08:21, November 27, 2015 (UTC)

And since when can you tell consensus or how a discussion will go when only two people were discussing it? Iam...    JakuhōRaikōben08:27,11/27/2015
Because there are four people above the three of us who all think that it should have a page, and they chimed in their fair share a couple days ago.
WrathRogue ChibiZero 08:30, November 27, 2015 (UTC)
Lol, people who were all of the same opinion. There was no "debate" started until I chimed an hour or so ago and me and Flipsy started discussing. Hardly what I'd call a discussion that's "going in circles." Iam...    JakuhōRaikōben08:38,11/27/2015

Hm honestly, I think we're looking at this all wrong. It seems the approach we've taken as a wiki is that because of the fact that her flame pants aren't armor, we don't create a page for them. We need to stray away from this mindset, as Erza uses Requip to wield this outfit, and not Transformation or any other sort of clothing exchange Magic. This really does need it's own page due to it's importance.

On another note, while the argument can be made that she uses all sorts of clothing and they should all have pages.. well, that issue can be addressed as well. We could always have a single page (that extends from The Knight) for the clothing Erza has Requipped into, such as her Lolita outfit. The fact that her Requip can accomplish such a feat is vital information and should be available within the wiki in some form. So basically, either we create a page for Flame Pants/ Clear Heart/ w.e or a single page that displays her clothing, preferably featuring a gallery of some sort. :Umnei:Juvia'sPictureForUmneiSignature 19:04, November 27, 2015 (UTC)

Voting

Page for Clear Heart Clothing
  1. Support Support -
    WrathRogue ChibiZero 08:03, November 27, 2015 (UTC)
  2. Support Support - -- God · Pray · 08:06,11/27/2015 
  3. Support Support - I see absolutely no harm here. And before someone tries to argue that this way, we'll have to make a page for every kind of casual clothing - no, this is actually used in battle and pretty frequently, has a significant meaning as well - as Wrath pointed out, it allows her to fight unhindered and lets her use the sword. That's plenty enough for a description already. Miskos3 Message 08:31, November 27, 2015 (UTC)
  4. Support Support - Sorry Raidad, but from my point of view, which obviously contradicts yours, this is only logical. Onfire.gif Wonder Talk 11:29,11/27/2015
  5. Support Support - it's only right... side note I actually like the flame pants but I get the criticism: Erza uses these like it's her job and gets magically saved from losing by throwing these on NcduruRavens wallpaper (2) 11:32, November 27, 2015 (UTC)
  6. Support Support - It definitely needs a page. This armor/ clothing is a paramount element within Erza's character, and even her fights. It definitely has enough content to feature into a page (Appearance, Special Features, Equipment) and I suppose the name we got from Zeref's Awakening is appropriate enough to use for now. :Umnei:Juvia'sPictureForUmneiSignature 18:55, November 27, 2015 (UTC)
No page for Clear Heart Clothing
  1. Oppose Oppose - I oppose this completely. First and foremost, regardless of how many times Erza has worn this outfit, the fact remains that it is just an outfit. An outfit with no name besides one provided in a video game (which we don’t consider canon). And an outfit with no special abilities. Wrath and the others are suggesting that we create a page for this outfit and that under its special abilities we should list that it has no special ability which allows Erza to use Benizakura. -__- I find this so preposterous that I don’t even know where to begin. The lack of a special ability is NOT a special ability. Erza is able to use Benizakura because she isn’t using Magic Power for an armor. Which can be done regardless of what she’s wearing so long as it isn’t an armor that uses Magic. So she could perform the same feat if she were wearing a bunny outfit or completely nude. True enough, this outfit has been worn a number of times by Erza and if people are just that gung-ho about it being mentioned, then it should just be mentioned in Erza’s Equipment section with the rest of her armors. But it definitely should not get its own page. We don’t make pages for clothing. To do so is ridiculous. Iam...    JakuhōRaikōben08:15,11/27/2015
  2. Oppose Oppose - It has been ages since I have voted in this wiki, but I must do it now. What's wrong with you people? Sorry if I'm being rude, but can't you read? All I see is Jak saying A and you guys understanding B. It doesn't matter if you feel like the clothing is important, the facts are: it's NOT named, it's NOT an armour, it's NOT magical, it's NOTHING. Should we give Lucy's clothing a name? Natsu's scarf a name? Gray's underwear a name? COME ON!! Sting Eucliffe GMG MagnoChibi StingCosmosCarla Anime S2 10:38, November 30, 2015 (UTC)

Discussions

@Rai Heart Kreuz and Seduction armors also lack special abilities sections. This would not be the first time we make a page for just an outfit. As I keep telling you, all three are just outfits. If Mashima were to come out and give this an official name that had the word armor in it, you would be all for making a page for it.-- God · Pray · 08:21,11/27/2015 

Yes, and as I keep telling you, those are named. And they are armors. There's a difference between them and a pair of pants. And yes, if Mashima were to give this an official name and call it an armor, I would be gung-ho for it. Because Mashima, the creator of the series, would have called it an armor. But the fact is that he hasn't done that, has he? Because it's just a pair of pants. Iam...    JakuhōRaikōben08:25,11/27/2015

Um, I hate to edit an already closed discussion, but was this fckin page made already? Cuz I'm probably blind and can't find it <.< Miskos3 Message 14:12, December 18, 2015 (UTC)

No ( .__.)
WrathRogue ChibiZero 14:19, December 18, 2015 (UTC)

I volunteer Wrath to make it-- God · Pray · 16:32,12/18/2015 

Name

Another thing for consideration while we're at it. Given circumstances (for Benisakura and other weapons), should we leave or alter the article's name? Inept Wiki User (talk) 15:08, November 26, 2015 (UTC)

Does 'Benisakura' hav some significance? Like Dojigiri and Tenga Goken do? Tenchi Kaimei's case is not comparable with Benisakura. --Sane Lunatic (talk) 15:56, November 26, 2015 (UTC)

Having had a quick google of the term Benizakura, only thing I can see suggesting the name has any historic significance is apparently there is a legend of the living demon sword, a Benizakura. However, upon a quick detailed(ish) search I can't find anything to support this, but I'll have a proper look later. I do however suggest renaming the blade from Benisakura to Benizakura. Derax PaganiTartaros 10:27, November 27, 2015 (UTC)

It would seem every mention of the name "Benizakura" on this wiki is misspelled as "Benisakura" (with an "s" instead of a "z"). But because I don't have the raws of the original manga, and there's a chance that going purely by the anime is prone to misinterpretation, I'm worried that this misconception won't be fixed simply because it's become too widespread within the wiki. The best I have is the raw version of the second chapter of Fairy Tail City Hero, where ざくら (zakura) is the kana that's clearly being used instead of さくら (sakura). Unless there's a bot for fixing this kind of issue, I don't know what else to do, so this is going to have to do. SubZeroSilver (talk) 17:02, November 24, 2018 (UTC)

I suggest actually checking the official manga's raws than using the spinoff's translations to be sure, just by using google translate of this kanji 妖刀紅桜 translates it to sakura but then again its google translate so its not really accurate, and the changes you did was based on the non canon spinoff manga's hiragana translation hopefully you'll be able to find the official canon raws for the sake of double checking and accuracy.

Also once its checked feel free to change the page again, the first priority is to update the main page then with the help of an admin or other users the other pages that needs to be updated will be changed little by little.LightningGeistLaxus Chibi 17:32, November 24, 2018 (UTC)

Ok someone else checked the raws and it was right so now the changes will be made one step at a time.LightningGeistLaxus Chibi 03:44, November 25, 2018 (UTC)

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