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(Tartaros Status)
(Master E.N.D.)
 
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As of chapter 424, Avatar states that Balam Alliance has dissolved. So what's the status of these guilds? Is it safe to categorize them as former guilds? [[User:Insivel|Insivel]] ([[User talk:Insivel|talk]]) 12:13, March 16, 2015 (UTC)
 
As of chapter 424, Avatar states that Balam Alliance has dissolved. So what's the status of these guilds? Is it safe to categorize them as former guilds? [[User:Insivel|Insivel]] ([[User talk:Insivel|talk]]) 12:13, March 16, 2015 (UTC)
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==Collapse of the Balam Alliance==
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{{Discussion Closed|result=Tartarus is dissolved; Grimoire Heart is unknown.}}
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Ignoring Avatar's extremely arrogant statement of being the next best thing, they said that the Balam Alliance has collapsed, which as said by Derax on chat does not mean that because the alliance is gone, the guilds are destroyed, but that because the guilds are destroyed, the alliance is gone. So, Tartaros and Grimoire dissolved? Thoughts please.<br>{{User:Wrath022/Sig3}} 21:16, March 19, 2015 (UTC)
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I say yes about Tartarus because there's really nothing left of it but Grimoire was still left with many standing members, some which even rode into the sunset with Zeref. But then again, just because they are alive doesn't mean the guild is still active... idk. I say Unknown status never hurt anyone. {{User:Relikz/Sig9}} 21:26, March 19, 2015 (UTC)
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I'm up for Unknown {{User:Miskos3/Sig3}} 22:58, March 19, 2015 (UTC)
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:I just realized Avatar isn't a user of the wiki ._. {{User:Miskos3/Sig3}} 22:58, March 19, 2015 (UTC)
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Misk, your brain is fried. D: Anyway, I'm up for Tartarus being dissolved and GH being unknown like Reli.<br>{{User:Wrath022/Sig3}} 23:00, March 19, 2015 (UTC)
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I'm cool with all that--{{User:Godisme/sig3|23:03,3/19/2015}}
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For Grimoire Heart I would say unknown since most of the members were still alive by the end of the Tenrou arc, for Tatarus practically dissolved since their guild master had been stolen and most of the members are already dead. {{User:Animaltamer7/Sig6a}}04:36, March 20, 2015 (UTC)
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The way I see it both guilds are dissolved. In Tartarus, most of the members were wiped out, except Franmalth from what I remember. Grimoire Heart is more tricky but let's think about it. The Master and 3 members = dead. Ultear and Meredy left. There are only 4 small fries left, and even their regular Mages were annihilated by Fairy Tail.
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And there's also the issue of the guild's ace leaving. I doubt Bluenote would leave his guild had it still existed, as it way stronger than Orochi's Fin, even with only those 4 Mages left. Plus there's also Avatar's quote about the Baram alliance having collapsed. Just placing my two cents here.<br>{{User:FairyRaven/Sig2}}08:01,3/20/2015
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We should only put in info that can be referenced; referencing it or not is secondary. It's quite rigid, but prevents any messes later on. Although it's almost certain that GH and Tartarus don't exist anymore, especially Tartarus, ... we can't really point anywhere. Avatar's statement is not a reference, it was more of an arrogant declaration, not to mention that it meant that the power of Dark Guilds had grown extremely weak. Collapse of the Alliance is open to interpretation. It mp means that the GH and Tartarus don't exist, but could also mean that they no longer hold the power to be called the strongest DGs, thus rendering the pact itself useless. So, I support '''Unknown'''. --[[User:Sane Lunatic|Sane Lunatic]] ([[User talk:Sane Lunatic|talk]]) 08:14, March 20, 2015 (UTC)
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Oh, to clear up my initial response, I support ''both'' guilds being unknown. We know that, for instance, Jackal was alive after Lucy defeated him. o,o {{User:Miskos3/Sig3}} 13:33, March 20, 2015 (UTC)
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I'll go with unknown because, on the one hand, they ''did'' defeat both Grimoire Heart and Tartarus but, on the other hand, we never know what to expect next.{{User:Dispelling Mage/Sig1}} 14:33, March 20, 2015 (UTC)
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== Grimoire Heart status ==
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The status of Grimoire Heart as a guild being dissolved as of Episode 246 of the anime has been addressed. [[User:Superlogan7437|Superlogan7437]] ([[User talk:Superlogan7437|talk]]) 19:57, August 15, 2015 (UTC)
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:Not canon--{{User:Godisme/sig3|19:59,8/15/2015}}
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::Why? [[User:Superlogan7437|Superlogan7437]] ([[User talk:Superlogan7437|talk]]) 03:27, August 17, 2015 (UTC)
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:::It was filler written for the anime and not by Mashima.--{{User:Godisme/sig3|04:55,8/17/2015}}
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::::In the manga we even see that Bluenote left and joined Orochi's Fin, even if canonically Kain was still with Rustyrose (as now we can't know and personally I doubt it) two people don't make a guild. [[User:Black Torch|Black Torch]] 12:19, August 22, 2015 (UTC)
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:::::Crime Sorciere beg to differ. {{User:Derax-Pagani/Sig1}} 12:25, August 22, 2015 (UTC)
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== Master E.N.D. ==
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While never (entirely) present, E.N.D. was officially recognized as the master of Tartaros not just by the guild itself but by the other guilds of the Balam Alliance, so I suggest mention him as Tartaros' Guild Master ([https://fairytail.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_Guilds?oldid=986276 like this perhaps]). --[[User:Neffyarious|Neffyarious]] ([[User talk:Neffyarious|talk]]) 19:52, January 17, 2019 (UTC)
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:But he wasn't. It was a lie invented by Mard Geer--{{User:Godisme/sig3|19:54,1/17/2019}}
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Sure he never acted as master, but I'm saying he was '''officially''' known as the Guild Master by every member of Tartaros, as well as by the other guilds of the alliance (like how Cobra knows E.N.D. as Tartaros' master). I'd compare it to the process of how Erza became guild master, all Levy had to to was write Erza's name and send it to the magic council and they recognized Erza as master of Fairy Tail. In this case it would be the Balam Alliance recognizing E.N.D. as guild master thanks to Mard Geer, making E.N.D. the "official" guild master of Tartaros. --[[User:Neffyarious|Neffyarious]] ([[User talk:Neffyarious|talk]]) 20:16, January 17, 2019 (UTC)
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:But again, he wasn't the guild master. It was a lie. He was never a part of Tartaros. Just because Mard Geer lied and said End was guild master doesn't mean he was guild master.--{{User:Godisme/sig3|21:54,1/17/2019}}
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::He was officially recognized as guild master though, which is why I'm suggesting adding that, not outright putting him as guild master. --[[User:Neffyarious|Neffyarious]] ([[User talk:Neffyarious|talk]]) 22:10, January 17, 2019 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 22:10, January 17, 2019

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CleaningEdit

All these dark guild pages seem to be riddled with speculation, or can be shortened down to make things easier, so does anyone mind if i clean this page up a little bit -Umi

Go ahead. I'm sure if we had any issues we'd just edit them. Dalyup! 10:21, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Can I remove the thing about Raven Tail being one of the 4 most powerful? I don't think it was ever said they were.--Cifer64 18:15, October 15, 2009 (UTC)

No, because the chapter that explains the Balam Alliance shows Raven Tail as one of the four "big" dark guilds indicating it is one of four of the most powerful ShockDragoon 3:05pm (ETZ)

K, I didn't remember the bubble being as big.--Cifer64 19:21, October 15, 2009 (UTC)


in the page the line "they are the smallest guild ever shown with only 6 members" but isn't that untrue now as the Cait Shelter Guild only has well Wendy that old dude and that cat thingy Faustfan 06:13, December 23, 2009 (UTC)

Real page for Grimoire heart Edit

Is it time to make a proper page for Grimoire Heart given the turn of events.Zicoihno 00:56, October 31, 2010 (UTC)

Former Dark Guilds Edit

Is it safe to say that since Oracion Seis has been disbanded, all of the dark guilds aligned to it (Harpuia, Red Hood, etc) have also been dissolved and can be put in the "Former Dark Guilds" category?Horologium4 23:26, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

Eh, is not better if you make separate pages for every dark guild? Id would be much more complete

Why aren't there all of the Dark Guilds under Balam ALliance listed? Episode 52 shows just about all of them clearly. —This unsigned comment was made by LegionAuthor (talkcontribs) .

Because we don't know anything about them. Bickslow Doll 2 Relikz Talk (Talk Page) 17:41, December 25, 2011 (UTC)

Oracion Seis ReturnEdit

Should Oracion Seis be placed back on as Active now in this article?--CNBA3 (talk) 04:48, January 10, 2014 (UTC)

Well, Brain is heavily implied to be dead, Hoteye has no desire to stay with the group, and they have only just been released from prison. As such, we're waiting a bit to see where this goes.
WrathRogue ChibiZero 04:56, January 10, 2014 (UTC)

For all we know they might even turn into an independant guild or disband altogether, so I agree with Wrath. Waiting a few more chapters is the better choice than rushing into anything. NoNickNeeded (talk) 09:23, January 10, 2014 (UTC)

# of Dark Guilds Edit

In episode 52, it shows a picture of all the dark guilds, and i believe I counted 50. you can put that in there. All you might want to double check too because i could be missing one.100.1.146.76 09:34, January 29, 2014 (UTC)Death

Tartaros StatusEdit

Should we really be listing Tartaros as an active Dark Guild? Pretty much all of its members were slain. Kamikaze839 20:53, February 7, 2015 (UTC)

That...is a really good question. Anyone else wanna chime in? ( ^_^)
WrathRogue ChibiZero 21:34, February 7, 2015 (UTC)

Cannot be referenced as having been disbanded or remaining members imprisoned, so would be speculation no matter how obvious. --Sane Lunatic (talk) 21:37, February 7, 2015 (UTC)

Maybe unknown is a better idea to list the guild, it's active yet inactive lol--Etweens96 (talk) 23:09, February 7, 2015 (UTC)

As of chapter 424, Avatar states that Balam Alliance has dissolved. So what's the status of these guilds? Is it safe to categorize them as former guilds? Insivel (talk) 12:13, March 16, 2015 (UTC)

Collapse of the Balam AllianceEdit

This discussion is closed. The result of this discussion is:
Tartarus is dissolved; Grimoire Heart is unknown.
Please do not edit this discussion.

Ignoring Avatar's extremely arrogant statement of being the next best thing, they said that the Balam Alliance has collapsed, which as said by Derax on chat does not mean that because the alliance is gone, the guilds are destroyed, but that because the guilds are destroyed, the alliance is gone. So, Tartaros and Grimoire dissolved? Thoughts please.
WrathRogue ChibiZero 21:16, March 19, 2015 (UTC)

I say yes about Tartarus because there's really nothing left of it but Grimoire was still left with many standing members, some which even rode into the sunset with Zeref. But then again, just because they are alive doesn't mean the guild is still active... idk. I say Unknown status never hurt anyone. Bickslow Doll Bickslow Doll3Bickslow Doll 2 21:26, March 19, 2015 (UTC)

I'm up for Unknown Miskos3 Message 22:58, March 19, 2015 (UTC)

I just realized Avatar isn't a user of the wiki ._. Miskos3 Message 22:58, March 19, 2015 (UTC)

Misk, your brain is fried. D: Anyway, I'm up for Tartarus being dissolved and GH being unknown like Reli.
WrathRogue ChibiZero 23:00, March 19, 2015 (UTC)

I'm cool with all that-- God · Pray · 23:03,3/19/2015 

For Grimoire Heart I would say unknown since most of the members were still alive by the end of the Tenrou arc, for Tatarus practically dissolved since their guild master had been stolen and most of the members are already dead. Virgo in ECS arc (no background)Animaltamer7Virgo Key04:36, March 20, 2015 (UTC)

The way I see it both guilds are dissolved. In Tartarus, most of the members were wiped out, except Franmalth from what I remember. Grimoire Heart is more tricky but let's think about it. The Master and 3 members = dead. Ultear and Meredy left. There are only 4 small fries left, and even their regular Mages were annihilated by Fairy Tail.

And there's also the issue of the guild's ace leaving. I doubt Bluenote would leave his guild had it still existed, as it way stronger than Orochi's Fin, even with only those 4 Mages left. Plus there's also Avatar's quote about the Baram alliance having collapsed. Just placing my two cents here.
RavenMestSting Anime Square(S)talk08:01,3/20/2015

We should only put in info that can be referenced; referencing it or not is secondary. It's quite rigid, but prevents any messes later on. Although it's almost certain that GH and Tartarus don't exist anymore, especially Tartarus, ... we can't really point anywhere. Avatar's statement is not a reference, it was more of an arrogant declaration, not to mention that it meant that the power of Dark Guilds had grown extremely weak. Collapse of the Alliance is open to interpretation. It mp means that the GH and Tartarus don't exist, but could also mean that they no longer hold the power to be called the strongest DGs, thus rendering the pact itself useless. So, I support Unknown. --Sane Lunatic (talk) 08:14, March 20, 2015 (UTC)

Oh, to clear up my initial response, I support both guilds being unknown. We know that, for instance, Jackal was alive after Lucy defeated him. o,o Miskos3 Message 13:33, March 20, 2015 (UTC)

I'll go with unknown because, on the one hand, they did defeat both Grimoire Heart and Tartarus but, on the other hand, we never know what to expect next.DispellingJellal chibiMage 14:33, March 20, 2015 (UTC)

Grimoire Heart status Edit

The status of Grimoire Heart as a guild being dissolved as of Episode 246 of the anime has been addressed. Superlogan7437 (talk) 19:57, August 15, 2015 (UTC)

Not canon-- God · Pray · 19:59,8/15/2015 
Why? Superlogan7437 (talk) 03:27, August 17, 2015 (UTC)
It was filler written for the anime and not by Mashima.-- God · Pray · 04:55,8/17/2015 
In the manga we even see that Bluenote left and joined Orochi's Fin, even if canonically Kain was still with Rustyrose (as now we can't know and personally I doubt it) two people don't make a guild. Black Torch 12:19, August 22, 2015 (UTC)
Crime Sorciere beg to differ. DeraxLogo Fairy Tail right 12:25, August 22, 2015 (UTC)

Master E.N.D. Edit

While never (entirely) present, E.N.D. was officially recognized as the master of Tartaros not just by the guild itself but by the other guilds of the Balam Alliance, so I suggest mention him as Tartaros' Guild Master (like this perhaps). --Neffyarious (talk) 19:52, January 17, 2019 (UTC)

But he wasn't. It was a lie invented by Mard Geer-- God · Pray · 19:54,1/17/2019 

Sure he never acted as master, but I'm saying he was officially known as the Guild Master by every member of Tartaros, as well as by the other guilds of the alliance (like how Cobra knows E.N.D. as Tartaros' master). I'd compare it to the process of how Erza became guild master, all Levy had to to was write Erza's name and send it to the magic council and they recognized Erza as master of Fairy Tail. In this case it would be the Balam Alliance recognizing E.N.D. as guild master thanks to Mard Geer, making E.N.D. the "official" guild master of Tartaros. --Neffyarious (talk) 20:16, January 17, 2019 (UTC)

But again, he wasn't the guild master. It was a lie. He was never a part of Tartaros. Just because Mard Geer lied and said End was guild master doesn't mean he was guild master.-- God · Pray · 21:54,1/17/2019 
He was officially recognized as guild master though, which is why I'm suggesting adding that, not outright putting him as guild master. --Neffyarious (talk) 22:10, January 17, 2019 (UTC)
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