Talk: Alvarez Empire

Skip to Table of Contents
	This is the talk page for the article "Alvarez Empire". This space is for discussing changes to the article. General discussion about the subject belongs in forums, and direct all questions to our Chat or Blogs. Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. Please remember to stay civil and sign all of your comments with four tildes (~~~~).

Albareth vs. Alvarez

This discussion is closed. The result of this discussion is:
name will be changed to Alvarez
Please do not edit this discussion.

I would like to change the name of this article, since アルバレス (arubaresu) is more in tune with Alvarez (compare: ビデオbideo - video). Additionally, if it was to be Albareth, it would be written アルバレフ (arubarefu).--Kamikashi (talk) 16:55, June 30, 2015 (UTC)

Albareth is the translation that the official source - Crunchyroll - uses, it's also been approved by our translator Miskos3 Message 17:02, June 30, 2015 (UTC)

Besides, if the name would in fact be Alvarez, Katakana would logically go like this if I'm not mistaken: アルバレズ (Arubarezu).
DispellingMage 17:06, June 30, 2015 (UTC)

Alright, you got me with Crunchyroll. So it stays for now Albareth.--Kamikashi (talk) 05:15, July 1, 2015 (UTC)

Actually, I looked up the Japanese Wikipedia, and アルバレス is a legitimate transliteration of "Alvarez". In fact, the official spelling of Jellal's English surname is "Fernandez", even though it's written in Japanese as フェルナンデス (Ferunandesu). Remember, the Japanese spelling doesn't always equate to the non-Japanese pronunciation. Otherwise Hades' name in Japanese would be ヘイディーズ (Heidīzu) instead of ハデス (Hadesu). But I suppose we're going by Crunchyroll translations for this. It may wind up being one of those things changed for Kodansha, though; remember, Crunchyroll thought "Etherious" was "Aetherious", which would turn E.N.D. into A.N.D. Also, they kept using spellings like "Poluchka", "Grandine" and "Doranbolt" when Kodansha kept using "Porlyusica", "Grandeeney" and "Doranbalt". Immblueversion (talk) 05:49, July 18, 2015 (UTC)

Well, I was going to bring this up later, but I believe we should go by Alvarez as well. :/ Crunchyroll isn't and never has been our official translator, and although Albareth is a correct translation too, it's kinda gibberish and Engrish whereas Alvarez is a name used for several different things including people, places, and mental disorders, lol. 夢Iam...  黒  JakuhōRaikōben死 05:54,7/18/2015

On top of that, it sounds Spanish, and one of the areas near the Empire, カラコール, is a transliteration of the Spanish word for "snail" (caracol). On the other hand, Jellal shares his Japanese name with "Gerard"... Immblueversion (talk) 06:00, July 18, 2015 (UTC)

Both are correct and I like both translations, so I am indifferent to any change. Although if we do decide to change it, we should use a bot, as there would be a LOT of work needed to be done. Wonder Talk ★★ 17:40, July 18, 2015 (UTC)

I honestly don't care what we use.

But

I -really- hate the inconsistency when we use different names than the official translations, because those are being used to the chapter titles. :/ Miskos3 Message 21:18, July 18, 2015 (UTC)

If we change the name of the place to Alvarez, than any chapter title mentions of Albareth should be changed to reflect that as well. 夢Iam...  黒  JakuhōRaikōben死 21:45,7/18/2015

But we have a policy to keep Crunchyroll/Kodansha titles in the list of chapters. And that bothers the hell out of me Miskos3 Message 21:47, July 18, 2015 (UTC)

When did that policy come into play? O__o To the best of my knowledge, we stop considering any manga provider "official" after Delray and have just been using Kodasha/Crunchyroll as possible translations for votes. If we are legitimately using their titles, then I think we need to open a discussion about it. Seems kinda weird to have the chapter titles include a translation we don't adhere to. >__< 夢Iam...  黒  JakuhōRaikōben死 21:58,7/18/2015

I'm fairly certain it is a result of a discussion we've had in past. I actually get the point since if we're listing volumes along with chapter names and once someone buys the volume and the title is different, it may look awkward, if that makes any sense. I'm just really bothered by the inconsistency that this causes though Miskos3 Message

Yeah, we've had this discussion before. We still include the official Kodansha title in the article, and on the Volumes and Chapters page, but the first sentence of the article will use our own spellings as opposed to the actual Kodansha translation. Feels pointless to have just the first sentence have our own spellings but that's how the discussion went..
:Umnei: 22:26, July 18, 2015 (UTC)

Oooo I remember that discussion now. :P To be fair, that's just kinda par for the course for the wiki and for any manga. Japanese is very interpretive and everything doesn't translate cleanly, and since we don't necessarily go by what's printed in the volumes, what we list sometimes goes against what they list and I don't have an issue with that. 夢Iam...  黒  JakuhōRaikōben死 22:35,7/18/2015

I'm fine sticking with Albareth. Aside from it being the translation used by.. pretty much the only official english translator, there are instances where english translations (Carla) will conflict with the jap name. In my opinion, the name Albareth comes off more regal as opposed to Alvarez, which comes off as hispanic and is a theme I have yet to see since the arc has begun. Who knows, maybe my opinion will change later, but for now, I'm fine with the way things are.
:Umnei: 22:23, July 18, 2015 (UTC)

As Imblue mentioned earlier, the name "Caracol" is Hispanic as well. :P 夢Iam...  黒  JakuhōRaikōben死 22:35,7/18/2015

Hm I see.. Well, if the themes are heavily emphasized, Crunchy should/would have picked up on it by now. Or perhaps they are going by Spain's spanish (@Reli's comment) ;)
:Umnei: 11:33, July 19, 2015 (UTC)

if its Spain's spanish, its still written as Alvarez, but its pronounced Alvareth 14:19, July 19, 2015 (UTC)

I support Alvarez. Alvarez is a common Spanish last name while Albareth is nothing. Also, in Spain's spanish (think of it as England'd english), the letter z is pronounced as a th. So Alvarez is latin America is pronounced like Alvares but in Spain its pronounced Alvareth. Also yes Caracol means Snail 23:53, July 18, 2015 (UTC)

Alvarez is a spanish surname. To my knowledge, there are a lot of spelling variations of this name, but the most common spelling I have seen is Alvarez. And I haven't seen it spelt as Albareth (the official translation) outside Fairy Tail. Chaos said she would've translated as Alvarez but decided to with Albareth.

As for Caracol/Caracole, to my knowledge they are both are accepted spellings for 'snail' in spanish. The official translation uses Caracol. I don't know whether or not one of them is a traditional spelling or a modern spelling, but I think we should use Caracol just to stay consistent with the official translation (they are both accepted spellings anyway so it doesn't really matter which one we choose).--DuelMaster93 (talk) 04:47, July 19, 2015 (UTC)

lol wut. In spanish there is not one single word with more than one spelling. Caracole = nothing, caracol = snail. 04:55, July 19, 2015 (UTC)

Don't know spanish, but from what I looked up they both mean snail (maybe there's different spellings in different countries/communities). But if you're right, and Caracole means nothing, we should change Caracole Island to Caracol Island.--DuelMaster93 (talk) 05:07, July 19, 2015 (UTC)

I know this has nothing to do with the topic at hand, but seeing how Crunchyroll used "Caracol" in the latest chapter, I support that change. Immblueversion (talk) 05:09, July 19, 2015 (UTC)

Agreed. 夢Iam...  黒  JakuhōRaikōben死 21:25,7/20/2015

I don't know. Both names may have a certain meaning in the series which may be revealed later on. Therefore, I'd rather we wait more on this before doing something prematurely. It's still just my opinion, though, which may or may not be accepted.
DispellingMage 06:12, July 19, 2015 (UTC)

Totally agree with this point. As unlikely as it is, in case there is a significant meaning behind the Empire's name it would be wisest to leave it as is for the minute before changing it prematurely only to find out later that, oh wait, we got it wrong and now need to faff about renaming it again. Who else remembers Silver's 'reveal'? Derax 11:13, July 21, 2015 (UTC)

Personally I prefer Albareth than Alvarez even if with a southern Spanish accent they're pretty much identical in terms of pronunciation, but how many people when coming across the empire for the first time in the series are going to realise this and instead pronounce it as Alvarez in English? Probably a moot point though :3 Derax 11:13, July 21, 2015 (UTC)

I oppose this. Chaos said Albareth is fine, the official English release uses Albareth, and this is going to be Tartarus-Tartaros all over again. It's an arc name, it's an empire name; just leave it alone. Albareth doesn't really hurt anything.
WrathZero 15:52, July 21, 2015 (UTC)

Chaos did say that Albareth was fine, but it also said that it would've translated it as Alvarez, so... ( .__.) And since when have we used Crunchryoll to decide our translations? The only translation that was ever considered law on this site was Delray, and that stopped years ago. Everything else, we vote on. Albareth doesn't hurt anything, but it doesn't mean anything either. I just feel it's much more likely that Alvarez would be the arc and empire's name since it's a legitimate word as opposed to Albareth which is Engrish nonsense. :/ 夢Iam...  黒  JakuhōRaikōben死 17:10,7/21/2015

I think I'm with Jak Reli and co. on this one. I like the spanishness of Alvarez, whereas Albareth just sounds awkward :/ however, I see the appeal of keeping it Albareth for the sake of consistency... Well, I'm leaning more towards supporting the change than opposing it.
Raven(S)talk16:51,7/21/2015

Voting

This discussion is closed. The result of this discussion is:
name will be changed to Alvarez
Please do not edit this discussion.

Albareth

1. Support - official translation + approved by Chaos -- The Talk Goblin 21:10, July 22, 2015 (UTC)
2. Support - Derax 11:29, July 23, 2015 (UTC)
3. Support - Still standing behind what I said above.DispellingMage 11:31, July 23, 2015 (UTC)
4. Support - It's just so much easier and less of a hassle, as well as consistent, for us to just keep using Albareth. It also has an air of regality surrounding the name, which I honestly don't hear when I say Alvarez, regardless of the name meaning anything or not. Also, it's way too soon to just start saying "Hiro is trying to do this" with the names, because we only have Caracol and Vistarion, and what the hell is vistarion? Nothing.
   WrathZero 11:36, July 23, 2015 (UTC)
5. Support - HiThere123(talk) 16:39, July 23, 2015 (UTC)
6. Support ---LordLuminous (talk) 18:50, July 24, 2015 (UTC)
7. Support - :Umnei: 00:46, July 25, 2015 (UTC)

Alvarez

1. Support - As previously mentioned, Albareth is Engrish nonsense while Alvarez is a name for several different things. In addition, as I've also mentioned before, no English translation of Fairy Tail is considered official on this site and none have been in over four years. And Alvarez is an approved translation by Chaos and Chaos even previously said that it was the translation that it would've chosen. :P 夢Iam...  黒  JakuhōRaikōben死 01:08,7/23/2015
2. Support - Try saying Alvareth outloud slowly, it sound sexy as hell. Its also an existing word already. Also caracol 20:07, July 22, 2015 (UTC)
3. Support - Albareth is not a known spelling of the surname and it means nothing when it is spelt like this. I also support Caracol.--DuelMaster93 (talk) 21:28, July 22, 2015 (UTC)
4. Support - hiro usually has a background to all of his names in FT so with Alvarez being of a Spanish background it makes sense {Ncduru (talk) 02:23, July 23, 2015 (UTC)}
5. Support - Wasn't the name "Alvarez" used in people's surnames in Sons of Anarchy? ..::ShinShinTo::. 02:52, July 23, 2015 (UTC)
6. Support - Those above have covered my points more or less.
   Raven(S)talk12:10,7/24/2015
7. Support - Its the most logical one-- God · Pray · 18:52,7/24/2015 
8. Support - I like it more, given what everyone has said. ☆°・*CarrotSays...*・°☆ 01:29, July 25, 2015 (UTC)

Neutral

1. Neutral - If the majority decide to rename it, please use a bot to get everything changed quickly and in one go. Wonder Talk ★★ 20:37, July 22, 2015 (UTC)

Military Section

I was thinking, there should be a military section in this page, just like in other pages describing the members in the guilds, the section would describe the strengths of it's army, their technology, and having a command structure. I was hoping to get the admins' approval to do it.--CNBA3 (talk) 16:24, November 20, 2015 (UTC)

Wahl's Status

Shouldn't you say that Wahl was destroyed? His body broke into many pieces when hit by Laxus's new technique and been scattered as a result. Super Kami Guru ^{(Swiggity swass, I'm gonna violate 'dat ass!)} 12:38, May 9, 2016 (UTC)

Remove Rakeid

I think it's too soon to add him/her/its.

That potential spriggan didn't get his/her/its appearance, and didn't get panel with his name and title "Spriggan 12".

Also Younkou said: https://yonkouproductions.tumblr.com/post/143982610898/is-there-any-appearance-of-the-last-spriggan-in https://yonkouproductions.tumblr.com/post/143978812463/is-bradmans-full-name-bradman-rakeid-is-his

So, we need more infos before we should consider Rakeid and Bradmann as 2 different spriggans.

There's punctuation separating Bradman and Rakeid, denoting that they are 2 different people, especially since we see a silhouette next to Bradman. I thought your discussion was confirming if Rakeid is a Spriggan or not, which hasn't been done yet. They are definitely different people though. :Umnei: 21:11, May 9, 2016 (UTC)

Magocracy

I think it is appropriate to change the government type to Magocracy, where the highest authoritary is a practitioner of magic.--CNBA3 (talk) 23:59, October 23, 2017 (UTC)

Doesn't that only apply if we based it on zeref alone? we dont even know who replaced him as the leader of alvarez and if the replacement is also a magic user. LightningGeist 00:28, October 24, 2017 (UTC)

I don't think we have any evidence of this being the case. We know nothing at all about the political parts of the government. The only facts we know for sure are that the Spriggan Shields were military leaders and bodyguards to the Emperor, but that doesn't make them members of the government in any political capacity. And of course that Zeref is the Emperor, but that's because he's the founder of the country and an immortal, not because he's the strongest mage. NoNickNeeded (talk) 06:44, October 24, 2017 (UTC)

What the fuck  Miskos3 ♐ Message  08:26, October 24, 2017 (UTC)

@LightningGeist, No, there can be other people in the government that are practitioner of magic too, like in Star Wars or Dungeons and Dragons. it is describing the ruling body can perform magic. in any case we can describe how the government was before their defeat at the end of the series. --CNBA3 (talk) 19:35, October 24, 2017 (UTC)

Wont that be speculation? since I cant remember that the manga ever mentioning what kind of government alvarez had before zeref became its emperor and after their defeat, all we can do is based it on what the official source has provided, maybe this wiki's format just followed real form of governments when describing each country so there wont be inconsistencies all over the wiki such as character synopsis, chapter summary and arc summaries. LightningGeist 02:10, October 25, 2017 (UTC)

Empire vs. Kingdom

In Fairy Tail: 100 Years Quest Chapter 13, Brandish put particular emphasis on Ajeel becoming king (国王) of the empire instead of emperor (皇帝). Before we get ahead of ourselves and suggest the article should technically be renamed as the Alvarez Kingdom to reflect this change, I propose we keep the name as it is, considering the name isn't used in the manga yet, and because the phrase "king of the empire" is not totally unorthodox. SubZeroSilver (talk) 02:17, November 28, 2018 (UTC)

The way i see it Ajeel was just called the king of the whole empire, its still possible to use empire in the alvarez name since the empire never disbanded meaning other smaller kingdoms are still apart of the empire and the manga never said the empire was turned into a kingdom or called it alvarez kingdom if it did they should've made it clear and mentioned it, so no changes should be made for the alvarez empire for now coz the official sources never did and just focus on Ajeel became its new ruler for now.LightningGeist 03:55, November 28, 2018 (UTC)