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The Fairy Tail Wiki has been facing a large amount of sockpuppet issues lately, namely Warmachine and his IPs, which have been blocked for more than 20 times (some chat socks as well). Not so long ago, Rif told me that Wikia is willing to provide CheckUser Rights if this is a big problem and is damaging the entire community. However, they asked us to make a forum so the entire community can have their say at this. Basically, CheckUser Rights is an extremely sensitive power that can only be given to someone the community puts their trust on. You can read about it here.

Please vote below if you believe Mega and IamJakuhoRaikoben should be granted these rights to protect our wiki from these issues, or if you think it is not needed. When voting, please be sure to add a hashtag at the beginning of your vote.

Requirements

  • All Administrators, Councilors, and Moderators are allowed to participate in the voting.
  • Any users without user rights, must meet the following criteria:
    • Been an editor on this wiki for at least 3 months.
  • Any user suspected of using a sock account for the voting will not only have their sock account blocked indefinitely but will be blocked from editing for a minimum of 4 months! No exceptions.

Discussion

alright so i know that sock-puppets are an extremely annoying problem and i have no issue with there being repercussions if they are used for evil, however i feel that not everyone that has sock accounts should be punished equally. there are a couple of user who have socks and don't use them for malicious purposes, for example i know a certain user who has a sock called User:Jesus of Nazareth which he used for comedic affects, several other users (not going to name names) also do this. plus i think using socks for something as small as messing up polls *COUGHthtCOUGH* shouldn't receive bans of four months. so can we discuss different ban lengths for users with socks, also you should restate "any users suspected of using socks" to "any users proven of using socks" in the requirements section--Quoth The Raven "Nevermore" ' 01:45, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

Lol Nucky. I will not check every user on the wiki to check if they us socks. It will only be used when people like Warmachine (whom comes with a new IP every other day...) and the chat user that Kuro had to ban the other day come along and vandalize the wiki. I know certain people don't us socks for nothing more than to have a good laughter, so don't worry about that. As for the requirements section, that's just the way it is worded, we won't block someone based on suspicion alone.
OmegaMakarov as SantaNatsu2 01:54, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

I thought it was referring to using sock-puppets in the voting here, since it is under 'requirements', not using several accounts in general o.O Miskos3 Message 01:59, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

It is, thus the "requirements," Nucky just doesn't read things carefully. You know him... >_>
OmegaMakarov as SantaNatsu2 02:01, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

i realized that the 4 months thing applied to users who try to use socks in the voting, but i assumed it also applied to users who were found of using socks since there was no other mention of a ban length and i didnt want to assume they would be permabanned just for using socks. if i misinterpreted anything then blame it on the dyslexia--Quoth The Raven "Nevermore" ' 02:15, November 24, 2013 (UTC)
Lol, we know.
OmegaMakarov as SantaNatsu2 02:47, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

CheckUser only allows you see an account's IP, so if WM continues to change IPs, CheckUser would not help, wouldn't it? Mudkip BW Marshtomp RSSwampert BW 04:29, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

The page says this Reli: "The purpose of a CheckUser search is to determine whether multiple IPs or accounts are being abused to spam." Lol. @Prime, blocking that many Ips/accounts isn't an issue? I mean, it could be because it's mostly me and Carry dealing with the blocking and the rants. And we're talking about the Fairy Tail Wiki. The others were just giving out their thoughts on what's happening on their wikis, but mentioning the ones happening here as well. Don't see the issue with doing that.
OmegaMakarov as SantaNatsu2 14:18, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

I know but what happens on other wikis shouldn't affect the decisions made here. If blocking multiple accounts is the issue, simply request a range ban. Check User is like you said, to search for information behind the accounts but I don't see such information as inherently necessary. I also wanted to clarify that check user rights here does not necessary make life easier on the answers wiki. King of Uncool 14:23,11/24/2013 
I know another wiki's problem should be used to support a discussion, but it's the same user we're talking about. And Warmachine is not the only problem we're facing, thus why wikia agrees but wants to hear out the community.
OmegaMakarov as SantaNatsu2 14:27, November 24, 2013 (UTC)
Whether or not it's the same user, the point remains that the rights don't extend from one wiki to another and does not mean that his socks on one can be found on another. WarMachine was a relatively mediocre sock and the only reason we had trouble with him was because he was't doing anything inherently against the rules and him being a distraction from work on both wikis was why he was blocked. That's the only significant problem with socks we have faced lately that I am aware of. Like I said with the chat issue, for a user to be checked, they need to have edited the wiki (if I am wrong on this, I'd like to know) and most chat socks do not. If these are the only issues, I'm surprised that staff is even willing to hear us out, to be honest. King of Uncool 14:34,11/24/2013 
Again, same user, examples can relate. Don't be surprised, Wikia apparently knows how to judge correctly and look at history. Don't see how a power that can help this wiki look unhelpful in a policy member's eyes, when the community can see it clearly. And stop repeating yourself, I understood your claim from your opinion below (about WM being one of the most noteworthy socks).
OmegaMakarov as SantaNatsu2 14:40, November 24, 2013 (UTC)
First off, I never said it wouldn't be helpful, I said I didn't think it was necessary. The Check User right is a powerful right and in my opinion, if it is being given to anyone here, then it's being given out too leniently by them, thus making me doubt their supposed correct judgement. Secondly, if an issue that needs my claims to be repeated exists, I will repeat them, that's all there is to it. I didn't claim he was one of the most noteworthy socks, I claimed he was one of the the only two significant issues we've had relating to socks and he was on the articles while the other wasn't. Simple as that. I've said my part and as such I'll try to avoid posting here again. King of Uncool 14:49,11/24/2013 
It's not being given out too leniently by them, otherwise this discussion would have no meaning. They saw the examples we gave them (the many blocks/socks/issues), and they agreed to hear the community out. Simple as that, but productive enough.
OmegaMakarov as SantaNatsu2 15:02, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

I think it's best for me to clarify my opinion. Regarding FTA: 1) I actually didn't and don't intend to have Mega doing CUs on suspicious IPs for the FTA, and 2) when I meant this will help the FTA, I mean we can check the block log here for the IPs, and keep a look out for these IPs over at FTA. We will only block if compelled to, so we will still be checking IPs on our own too. Also, regarding the recent IPs I've mentioned coming from Quezon City, Manila, (and India), they were from here and not FTA. So if he eventually never ever returns to FTA, I'm relieved, but he is still a problem here imo. SüиnyFï :// knit α tαlє 15:03, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

"The purpose of a CheckUser search is to determine whether multiple IPs or accounts are being abused to spam, vandalize, or disrupt wikias." So it checks an entire wikia, basically tells you that Miskos3 is blocked on SnK Wikia, FT Wikia, etc. for doing X and Y? Otherwise I have no idea how it is different from what Reli says. There's no way to effectively say whether one IP is used by the same person as the second IP.

The way I see it, it should work like this:

  • It gives you a list of IPs that accessed a certain account
  • It also gives you a list of accounts that were accessed by certain IP

And.. that's all it should be able to do, in my opinion. What I am trying to say is, if Warmachine resets his router and begins editing with a new IP, unless he logs into one of his already blocked accounts with the new IP, CheckUser will be useless. The best you can do is to take two IPs and look up their locations, however even that may not work - my IP keeps jumping around the entire country without me even trying - if he uses proxy or something, he will be given random location, effectively hiding himself. The only thing that can reveal him is his retarded edits. Thus, making CheckUser useless. While I personally think that - at the very least - Bureaucrats should have this feature by default, I don't see how it will be helpful in our case, since it works only in really... specific cases.

Furthermore, I guess I'm with Prime when it comes to the fact that I don't see the current problem to be so alarming that we have to request a wiki staff for help. Having a new feature is nice, but not for the sake of having it. Miskos3 Message 15:06, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

What Misk said is kinda my view too. I'm all up for supporting Mega, but I don't see what this would do if WM keeps changing IPs. Mudkip BW Marshtomp RSSwampert BW 20:14, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

Are Rai and Mega both getting the rights or do we have to choose between 1 of them? I would prefer it if they both got them but if we had to choose one, I'll be sticking by my initial vote since Mega is easily accessible and just as active.
:Umnei:Juvia'sPictureForUmneiSignature 14:19, November 26, 2013 (UTC)

Wikia asked for two (logically the/a Bureaucrat and Admin) just if one by any chance goes inactive/missing. And awww, you iz making me blush~! :3
OmegaMakarov as SantaNatsu2 14:24, November 26, 2013 (UTC)

Voting

Omega natsu2

Support

  1. Support Support - DarkErigor Erigor chibi
  2. Support Support - Please.
    WrathRogue ChibiZero 01:56, November 24, 2013 (UTC)
  3. Support Support - I've been thinking about this really serious. Normally I won't get involved in wiki matters, but since this affects my editing to a considerable extent, I'm here. WM has given and is still giving us enough headaches on both FT and FTA. Obviously, the annoying effects of his edits on FT has been very evident, so I won't go there. As an editor on FTA, I don't know how many realize, but we have had a serious problem with him. Whilst he wasn't adding redundant and ambiguous info there like he did for FT (since it's an answers wiki anyways), he's been asking MANY abstract or "out of scope" questions, til the point I had enough to tell him off on his AF's talk page.

    Rif and I have been checking possible IP addresses on both wikis, and from what we found, his IP was originally only from Cebu (if you see his confession on his WM's talk page, his college is from Cebu, I googled it up), which was easier to tell. However, we found his recent IPs to be from Quezon City, Manila, and even one from India ._. It is getting harder to ascertain if it is him or another trolling anon. You either go with gut feeling, or stalk his talk pages/blog comments to determine his typical sentence structures, grammar, etc, which makes you feel like CSI. >_>

    If this goes through in the wiki, not only will it help FT, but also FTA. Rif has been using WM's block on FT as a basis to block him on FTA too, to save us the headaches. I know the chat room has suffered much ranting from Carry and me about him on FTA, what more the general rants from people about him on FT too. Thus, I really support this. SüиnyFï :// knit α tαlє 02:01, November 24, 2013 (UTC)
  4. Support Support - You guys don't know this but he(WM) has been talking to me on Avatar wiki quite a lot and frankly its super tiring. Not only does he even break the rules there, but he went on about how this wiki's users are "racist" and "unfriendly" and "unforgiving", to which I have to give a speech every time(not that it matters) and he is too dense to learn from his mistakes at all and continues to edit articles here even after I've warned him god knows how many times. I think his upbringing has gone to his head. Not to mention his typical childish and overly emotional statements that make me facepalm. Implementing this will at least save me having to give him lectures on this wiki as well. Tbh that kid isn't suited for the internet and would be better if he was globally banned until he learns some maturity(not likely). Also this forum is more of an acceptance of Mega having the powers, which I do not object to.
    --Fairy Tail Grand Master<F.T.G.M. >Mavis AvatarAcnologia Avatar 03:35, November 24, 2013 (UTC)
  5. Support Support - 07:56, November 24, 2013 (UTC) —This unsigned comment was made by NoNickNeeded (talkcontribs) .
  6. Support Support - I don't see why not, so unless someone brings forward some alarming reasons for me not to, I support. ☆°・*CarrotSays...*・°☆ 10:53, November 24, 2013 (UTC)
  7. Support Support - I see no harm in having these rights bestowed upon Mega. We've had issues before and I don't think it is smart to wait around for a severe issue to occur and then request them. Equipping our admins with the right tools to ensure our wiki is smoothly run is what is important, and I am sure Mega will not be abusing these rights as well. If Wikia is offering these rights, by all means, let's take them and use them to our advantage.
    :Umnei:Juvia&#039;sPictureForUmneiSignature 12:42, November 24, 2013 (UTC)
  8. Support Support - Lezdodis.
    Patamonメッセージ15:11, 11/24/2013
  9. Support Support - I still have my concerns but if this tool will help the wiki then why not Mudkip BW Marshtomp RSSwampert BW 20:27, November 24, 2013 (UTC)
  10. Support Support -I think we'd better be safe than sorry and have a counter-measure in case sock accounts become a major problem. Then again I can't think of anyone better than Mega for this job, so why not.
    RavenMestSting Anime Square(S)talk20:55,11/24/2013
  11. Support Support -. RifatHappy Chibi imgTalk07:45,11/25/2013 
  12. Support Support - I have no issue with Mega and Rai receiving such rights, however I have my doubts about its usefulness when it comes to our problems and also you guys' reasoning - many of you mention that having this feature will be good 'just in case it's needed in the future' - but then, why doesn't wiki allow this feature to begin with, why is it apparently needed for shit to be going down just so we can request it? Miskos3 Message 15:57, November 26, 2013 (UTC)
  13. Support Support - Hai, hai! :D JakuhoBulbasaur IvysaurVenusaurRaikoben00:46,11/29/2013

Oppose

  1. Oppose Oppose - Simply put, I don't see this as a big problem that is damaging the entire community. The only concrete examples of sock issues we've had in recent memory were WarMachine375 and that chat sock from several days ago, the former of whom was merely a bad editor, not a vandal. We blocked him and his socks because his edits were troublesome in that they forced others to undo them to maintain the standards of our wiki's articles. This is the only noticeable problem we have had with socks in recent memory on the articles. As to the chat sock, this does not work because to my recollection, the CheckUser right will not be usable on a user who has not edited the wiki. Thus if we want to check people for being socks of one another, we will not know how many socks we are after.

    Also, I am assuming that these check user rights will be local check user rights. This is not the same as global check user rights, which can be used across Wikia and is a right only select users have across the entire network. I don't believe I am mistaken when I say that they will not extend to the answers wiki, even if it's the Fairy Tail Answers Wiki. Another thing is the information regarding IPs. Having read conversations elsewhere involving Wikia Helpers and VSTF, I've been put under the impression that IP addresses obtained via check user rights are forbidden to be divulged. Even when you submit a check user request to Wikia, they will merely tell you the accounts which have shared the same IP at some point and only those which have edited on the wiki in question. If the Answers Wiki needs a Check User, then they'll have to ask for one because the right here cannot be used to help over there and even if it could, I don't see a way to do it without violating the rules, which telling you someone's IP address would fall under. Granted, there are ways to do this, but that would hardly be honest.

    In my opinion, until this becomes a more significant problem for us, which should involve vandalism at the very least, a check user on our wiki is not necessary. If you look at wikis which have users who have local check user rights, you will notice that most of them, if not all, are communities much larger than ours which face even worse vandalism and sock problems. As such, if we really need to get someone checked when we think that they are a sock, and only a harmful sock because using it for one that is not harmful is barely necessary, we should just submit a request to the staff to do it for us. We've only ever needed that done one time in my memory so unless there is a more significant case that I am unaware of, this isn't something our wiki needs. King of Uncool 12:30,11/24/2013 

IamJakuhoRaikoben

Support

  1. Support Support - I know Rai will only use it when really needed. RifatHappy Chibi imgTalk14:04,11/26/2013 
  2. Support Support - Of course! This wiki would be nothing without Rai.
    OmegaMakarov as SantaNatsu2 14:16, November 26, 2013 (UTC)
  3. Support Support - I don't see why the Bureaucrat has a voting in process since it would only be best if the Bureaucrat receives these rights as well but alright lol
    :Umnei:Juvia&#039;sPictureForUmneiSignature 14:39, November 26, 2013 (UTC)
  4. Support Support - --Fairy Tail Grand Master<F.T.G.M. >Mavis AvatarAcnologia Avatar 14:44, November 26, 2013 (UTC)
  5. Support Support - Miskos3 Message 15:57, November 26, 2013 (UTC)
  6. Support Support - Rai should have this feature / tool / right right away, no questions asked.. ._.
    Patamonメッセージ17:05, 11/26/2013
  7. Support Support - Why not? Mudkip BW Marshtomp RSSwampert BW 20:17, November 26, 2013 (UTC)
  8. Support Support - Go papa.
    WrathRogue ChibiZero 20:30, November 26, 2013 (UTC)
  9. Support Support - Makes sense that the Bureaucrat has this. XD SüиnyFï :// knit α tαlє 04:37, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

Oppose

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