Talk:Nine Demon Gates

The name
Perhaps I'm missing something Japanese related, but why exactly is the name not in plural? D: I would guess it meant the 9 members being the gates, that, or 9 demons coming from a gate. In any case, either gate or demon should be in plural, amirite? 20:31, October 24, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, it's annoying me also, but that's what Chaos named the page 01:18, October 25, 2013 (UTC)

Actually, he just changed Ghost to Demon D: That's why I'm asking if singular form is indeed correct. 11:25, October 25, 2013 (UTC)

im pretty sure that the one who attacked Yamajin is Tempesta. just saying.

That has been sorted out already. 15:13, October 25, 2013 (UTC)

The gates themselves
is it my imagination or do the demon gates represent a version or something of Dante's inferno. i mean seriously look at them and their personalities they represent the levels of hell in the book. i made a edit adding a trivia section but it was deleted.i just want this info here just to kinda have the inspiration out there

Yugioht42

you arent the only one, but for now adding it would be speculation-- 22:53, December 1, 2013 (UTC)

Demon Form
Look, this is just a term we started using when Jackal transformed into a beast without explanation. And after the already demonic Ezel's Slash Attack Mode, Sayla's Macro induced transformation, and Franmalth's blatant lack of a transformation outside of Revolution, I believe that it is inaccurate to give them such a general term and we should just call it for what they are. Discuss. 15:22, April 11, 2014 (UTC)

the only one with a name was Ezel's. I don't know where people got this Limit Break name but I stream and panda just used breaking the limit as in action, not a name. 15:26, April 11, 2014 (UTC)

I called it that because it seemed appropriate, and this wiki is full of fan-names. Demon Form is also a fan-name as said in my above comment. 15:29, April 11, 2014 (UTC)

I, on the other hand, don't see a problem with calling them Demon Forms, unless someone can come up with a better name. The way I see it they are like - forgive me for making such comparison - bankai of shinigami. Each bankai has a different name and a different ability, but as a whole, they're the final form of a Shinigami's Zanpakutou. The same can, imo, apply to Sayla's Weird Feet transformatioin, Jackal's whateveritwas form, Ezel's Slash Form and Franmalth sucks. 19:27, April 11, 2014 (UTC)

Like Misk, I see no problem with calling them "Demon Forms." Kyouka did make a remark when Silver was in his "Human Form." 19:39, April 11, 2014 (UTC)

I say just call them "Demon Forms" until we get better or official names for them. :/ 21:34,4/11/2014

On the chapter pages, until further notice, we could just list them as this until (or if) they get official names:
 * Demon Form
 * Slash Attack Mode

Ezel's form actually got a name, so if you want to have the best of both worlds. 22:33, April 11, 2014 (UTC)

That's the problem, we're asserting the term 'demon form' even though it has never been used. Half of Tartarus' already take very non-human forms. As you say Mega, Silver, and Silver alone, has been noted for choosing to take human form. That is what's unique. Every transformation so far (bar Jackal, who is still unexplained) has been the result of an ability, and so calling them all the same general thing is inaccurate. Franmalth is a cyclops. Kyouka is a harpy. Torafusa is some sort of avian gorilla. Why is Ezel's regular form not a considered a demon? He is literally a tentacle monster under normal conditions, and has directly named his transformation. Yet the wiki has asserted the fan-made 'Demon Form' term over what it has actually been called.

Basically, the majority of them already take demon form, and Silver alone has been noted for taking human form. 03:25, April 12, 2014 (UTC)

For the love of... "Like others of her race, Sayla has a Demon form which allows her to go beyond her limits."

This is just an assertion of already assumed information. Sayla's current form is a direct result of her using her Macro ability on herself to force her body to go beyond its limit. This makes it unique. She did not just naturally change into it like we saw with Jackal. 03:39, April 12, 2014 (UTC)

I have to agree with Kuro here. I believe we are asserting a name to something that doesn't exist. Silver has a completely human appearance, so saying he is not in a Demon form makes complete sense - for the others, no. They all are Demons and all look like Demons... these new things aren't them taking on a demonic form - no, they already have a demonic form. These changes are just abilities they use in my eyes as attacks, just as Freed uses that Darkness attack thing to become a monster. So, I don't think Jackal, Sayla and Ezel's things should be called "Demon Form". Heck, Ezel's was called Slash Form. Jackal's is more something like a full-body transformation and Sayla's should be called Limit Break or whatever we had before based on what she said she was doing. I dunno, to me it's stupid to state that a Demon is taking on a Demon Form when they look like Demons to begin with XD 11:04, April 12, 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh, adding on. If anything we should remove Demon Form and state on Silver's page that he has a Human Form, as really, a Demon looking like a complete human is the real form change here ;D 11:05, April 12, 2014 (UTC)

I have no problem with Demon form, otherwise, why would they take on their other forms if it's just for show. Perhaps Silver is the only one who can take on a "Human Form", perhaps the demons all have a humanoid appearence and their "Demon Form" is their true form. This is all speculation with what everyone is saying. We need to get more indepth with Tartarus' members.

P.S, what about Doriate? He was a demon as well yet he took on demon form.

And I think on the "1000 souls" chapter, Franmalth had his those spikes and changed shape, I think that maybe his demon form as well.--CNBA3 (talk) 13:20, April 12, 2014 (UTC)

I mean, thinking about it, demons can't be that pretty or handsome or whatever, their attractive looks must be a facade to hide their ugly looks.--CNBA3 (talk) 13:22, April 12, 2014 (UTC)

No, it is not speculation. We already know that Sayla's current form is a direct result of her Macro curse, Ezel's form is called Slash Attack Mode (斬撃モード Zangeki Mōdo), and Silver is unique for taking human form (as noted by Kyouka). Only Jackal and Sayla somewhat resembled humans, but even then with distinct non-human traits. It is more speculative to say, "demons can't be that pretty or handsome or whatever, their attractive looks must be a facade to hide their ugly looks". That is mere personal opinion. But if you think Keith is pretty or handsome then hey... necrophilia is a thing, man.

Thanks for the support, Carry~. 23:47, April 12, 2014 (UTC)

There are things we still don't fully know about the demons or their past, Why would Sayla change form when she removed her limiter? Why would Ezel have a Slash Attack Mode, implying that he has more forms?, until more info is revealed, it is merely speculation.--CNBA3 (talk) 03:47, April 13, 2014 (UTC)

Why does Mirajane change form into a Demon to fight? Why does Kagura have a Slashing Form and a Strong Form when she attacks with a sword all the time? These are just attack names and upgrades like with everything else in Fairy Tail. In my eyes what Sayla did (remove her limiter) is exactly like Brain removing his seals to become Zero, or Hades removing his eyepatch to use Demon's Eye. They are strong fighting skills that need to be concealed so that they aren't always in use and draining the user, hence they are blocked. In a separate example, Freed used his own Magic on himself in his fight against Mira to upgrade his form to her level. How is what Sayla did any different? If she is a Demon already, how is this upgrade making her more of a Demon? Also, if you're going to speculate that Ezel has more forms, why would we call only Slash Mode his Demon Form? Hmmm? Surely you're stating that Slash Mode was his Demon Form? If so, how can you also say that he has more forms? A Demon Demon Form now? 04:04, April 13, 2014 (UTC)

Hmmm Carrot's points have made me start seeing this in a new light... Guess I'll keep thinking about it then... 04:10, April 13, 2014 (UTC)

I didn't say he had more than one mode, that was just a question for making a point, Right now this is just speculation, we know nothing more of these demons. Maybe they can change forms with different techniques, maybe not. We will have to wait a see.--CNBA3 (talk) 04:17, April 13, 2014 (UTC)

"Every transformation so far (bar Jackal, who is still unexplained) has been the result of an ability." & "If she is a Demon already, how is this upgrade making her more of a Demon?" True dat to both statements. I think I'm with Kuro and Yummy on this one peeps. 04:18,4/13/2014


 * Well, just to point out something else, we have stated on Moka and the other Galuna Island residents' pages that they have the ability to take on a Human Form. I know they are a different kind of species to Tartarus' Demons, but surely Silver is the odd one out and is like the Galuna Island peeps in the sense that he takes on a Human Form - Kyouka also asked him why he had taken on a Human Form, compared to Demon Form never being mentioned once. 04:19, April 13, 2014 (UTC)

What about Doriate, if Silver is indeed anything related to Gray, then Silver is on a totally different page.

As to how would Sayla's upgrade make her more of a demon, it is to make her stronger than she was a moment ago.--CNBA3 (talk) 04:25, April 13, 2014 (UTC)

So we have Doriate and Jackal with unexplained transformations. That doesn't change the fact that Ezel and Sayla have used unique abilities, and that Silver alone has been noted for having a Human form.

...and where did you even get Gray from out of all of this? Please stop bringing in even more speculation. This isn't some fan forum you've jumped into. We're trying to decide on something that will affect the wiki.

Becoming stronger doesn't make you more of your species. Erza releasing her Second Origin didn't make her more human. The only power that makes you more of something is Dragon Slayer magic, and that's humans turning into dragons - not dragons turning into more of a dragon. 07:45, April 13, 2014 (UTC)

I see the point, yeah, Demon Form is not exactly correct, but I still think that all those releases should be grouped into one 'category', if I put it that way, like a final form of a demon? 11:01, April 13, 2014 (UTC)

I think it's just something much simpler. "Demons have shown the consistent ability to change their form, whether through a natural ability or forced transformation." The problem is the forms are all so different, unlike a distinct ability like Dragon Force which is the same for all users. 11:11, April 13, 2014 (UTC)

That's why I originally compared them to Bankai of Shinigami, they're all different, but in the end, they're final forms of their ability. I'd say the same about Demons, their final form is this transformation thingy, even though each of the transformations is different, perhaps in order to fit the Curse they're using. 11:21, April 13, 2014 (UTC)

I agree with Miskos, but I'd say the same for Arrancars and their Ressurrections. Each has their own unique style of sword release.

I think "Demon Form" is not the right term to use, but something else like "Demonic Form".

Dragon Force does have different ways of achieving it, either naturally (3rd Generation) or eating high quantity Ethernano (1st Generation).--CNBA3 (talk) 11:39, April 13, 2014 (UTC)

I agree with Kuro Now :P 18:29, April 13, 2014 (UTC)

I suggest that in the case of Jackal and Doriate we keep it as 'Demon Form' as just a placeholder name until we know more. Doriate is unlikely, but Jackal is still alive and capable of being explained.

For Ezel, Sayla, and Silver we should change their articles to reflect what we do know. Ezel has Slash Attack Mode, Sayla's form is a direct result of her Macro ability (I'm for Limit Release because that's exactly what she's done, but I'm open to other suggestions), and Silver should be noted as having a Human Form. Can we all agree on this? 05:05, April 14, 2014 (UTC)

Some time later and after reading multiple arguments, I've come to agree with everything Kuro has said. Some other people please agree so I can close this thing. ( ._.)/ 20:06, April 14, 2014 (UTC)

Well, obviously, I agree~ I think we should remove Demon Form as a whole, put Human Form on Silver's page, Beast Form on Jackal's page, Slash Attack Mode on Ezel's page and Limit Break/Limit Release on Sayla's page :) 07:33, April 15, 2014 (UTC)

I like the sound of Beast Form. And Limit Break/Limit Release/Limiter Release/whatever would be a Macro spell, so that'd be all good fun to have. The rest all looks good to me Carry. The rest of you whores wake the hell up and say something! (._____. ) 07:41, April 15, 2014 (UTC)

I would say it's best to do it the way Carry has mentioned as opposed to listing them all as demon form because grouping the ability as such would be false, whereas Carry's method is simply describing as we have seen them. I feel like Kyouka or someone else will shed light over this in the future so as of now, let's just do it the way Carry said. 12:05, April 15, 2014 (UTC)

Yes. Let us do it the way Carry said. 12:11, April 15, 2014 (UTC)

Missing Members
According to what Mard said recently to his Guild via his telepathy, there are vacancies in Nine Demon Gates (Ezel, Franmalth). Considering that Tartarus Hell's Core no longer exists because was destroyed by Mirajane and Plutogrim was annihilated by Celestial Spirit King (leaving Etherious with no way to "reborn") could we list Ezel and Franmalth as deceased or just kick them out from said team? Mad 従え！ 18:36, May 17, 2014 (UTC)

Though I don't agree with the part about Mard saying there are vacancies in the Nine Demon Gates, I do agree that their statuses need to change. This also extends to Lamy. Listing them as 'Unknown' is misleading - we know exactly what happened to them. They died. Yes, they can be revived - but so could Krillin in Dragon Ball. The fact still remained that he was dead until said revival took place. Ezel, Franmalth, and Lamy aren't going to regenerate on their own - they need Hell's Core which is currently non-existent. As it currently stands they are all clearly deceased until shown otherwise. 22:46, May 17, 2014 (UTC)

Yup, they are deceased for now (and probably forever). 02:49, May 18, 2014 (UTC)

...so does that mean I can change their statuses now? 03:36, May 18, 2014 (UTC)

Yup. I don't see why people keep putting Unknown to everything 03:47, May 18, 2014 (UTC)

Done. ( ._.)/  03:51, May 18, 2014 (UTC)

Nine Demon Gates names + more
Okay so, now that I have single-handedly, somehow, taken care of all the renames over the last 3 or 4 days from the forum, it's time to start this little discussion. Basically, there are going to be two parts to this. The first part will take place below, and the second part below that. Continue downward for more info, but warning: prepare for an essay. =) 00:10, May 29, 2015 (UTC)

9DG Names
Alright, we now have six Nine Demon Gates with quote-unquote "official" names, these being Silver, Jackal, Keyes, Franmalth, Kyôka and Ezel. At this stage in the game, I think it's strange of us to be using Chaos/Stream's translations (as much as we all love and appreciate the former's work) when we have two official sources, the English manga and the anime, using the same exact names, while we use different ones. These characters with different names (for the time being. Who knows about Lamy, tbh) are Torafusa, Sayla and Tempesta. Kodansha USA and A-1 Pictures use Torafuzar, Seilah and Tempester for the characters. Now, being the proposer, I obviously support these names for use in our articles, and I'm going to try and explain why I personally think they should be used in place of our current names. In my honest opinion, if we use these names I believe we will be making the wiki look consistent and decisive by matching our names with names shared by the current media. Especially names that have shown up on title cards and are the same between two differing, separate kinds of presentations of the Fairy Tail series. If not, I think it will personally make us look bad. But again, it's all up to you guys. Part 2 will be located one section below this. 00:10, May 29, 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) For Torafusa, on his talk page some 9 months ago, the user Immblueversion brought up the fact that Torafusa's name in Kodansha/Crunchyroll media not only matches his katakana much better (Torafuzā トラフザー), but also that the Japanese name for a Zebra Shark is Torafuzame, which is exceedingly close to his name. Hence I see the need for Kodansha and A-1 to use Torafuzar over Torafusa, which has an "s".
 * 2) Sayla was Chaos' translation, and Seilah is just another way to spell it based on the katakana. The only reason I think we should be using Seilah over Sayla is just to adhere to both media, which coincidentally have matching translations. Haven't you all thought it was strange that Kodansha USA and A-1 Pictures, who supposedly have no personal contact with one another whatsoever, are using the same exact names, barring Kyoka, whom in A-1 Pictures' version is spelled without the macron? I sure have. :P Also she is my honey and I personally like the look of Seilah over Sayla.
 * 3) Tempesta to Tempester mostly for consistency. Again, like Sayla's Kodansha/A-1 name, it is valid based on the katakana. He may have been a shitty villain, but Tempester is a variant of the French word tempêter, which means tempest.

Only one I dont support is Seilah. Its so ewww.--

I support them all. Seilah is ugly as fuck, but seeing as she's not likely to appear ever again, I'm not too concerned. 00:38,5/29/2015

Only one I dont support is Tempester. Its so ewww and ugly as fuck, but seeing as he's not likely to appear ever again, I'm not too concerned. 02:55, May 29, 2015 (UTC)

I am not warming up to Seilah and Torafuzar.. yet. If you can please explain me the purpose of the letter r in the end of his name, then please do so. I mean, why not simply use Torafuza? And I know Sayla is your love, but I will second Rai's statement about it. Seilah? Gross as fuck. That kind of spelling here goes well with elderly people. She is voluptuous and hot, and anime give her that? Like, ugh, please, don't let me imagine an grandma with large boobs and demon horns. However, I support Tempester. Tbh, you had me at the French word, haha! My vote for this isn't final, btw.

9DG Titles
So I talked with Chaos and viewed old message regarding the titles for the Nine Demon Gates. What I want for us to do is use the titles for the Demon Gates presented in Episode 234. If Tempesta has a different variant by tomorrow, I'll add it to the list. Below, I'll sound off the aliases we have and then give the one the anime gave next to it, with a reason for change, should they be different. Anyway, that's all. Holy shit, that was a lot of writing. DX Anyway, vote here for the aliases only. G'day peeps~ Oh, and I support all this stuff changing. 00:10, May 29, 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) Franmalth : (堅甲 Kenkō) The Armored Shell to The Armored. The reason for this was that on Chaos' talk page, it said that Kenko can translate to either armor/armored or just shell alone, but I believe that simply Franmalth the Armored suffices. He may be fat and stuff, but he has armor, and that doesn't make him look like a shell. Ergo, simply The Armored in place of The Armored Shell.
 * 2) Ezel : (童子切 Dōjigiri) Child Slicer to Dôjigiri. The anime simply left this untranslated. I recall hearing Chaos explain that Dôjigiri was a kind of sword but opted to appease people by translating it literally, which resulted in Child Slicer. However, after viewing Ezel's capabilities, I think given that he uses attacks based on sword names, and has a Curse named after a collective set, Dôjigiri is more fitting. Unless you want to go around renaming his Curse to Heavenly Set of Five Swords and his spells to Demon Circle and the like, consistency is best here, imo.
 * 3) Kyôka : (隷星天 Reiseiten) Slave Star Angel to Goddess of the Slave Planet. I talked with Chaos and it said that Reiseiten can also 100% legitimately translate to this. I think it personally sounds better over Slave Star Angel, and makes a tad more sense.
 * 4) Sayla : (涼月天 Ryōgetsuten) Clear Moon Sky to Goddess of the Chill Moon. 100% love this more. It makes not only more sense, but also much like Kyôka, I had Chaos confirm that it was 100% legitimate as a translation.
 * 5) Torafusa : (晦冥 Kaimei) The Darkness to The Dark. This one can go either way, but I like The Dark more than The Darkness. If you say it out loud, Torafusa the Dark vs. Torafusa the Darkness, it's easier to figure out which one you prefer. I like the Dark because it not as long, mostly, and in my ears it sounds a hint better.
 * 6) Keyes : (漆黒僧正 Shikkoku Sōjō) Black Priest to Black Archbishop. On Chaos' talk page, it said once that it's more common to refer to 僧正 as Buddhist Priest rather than bishop/archbishop. However, it also said that an Archbishop is essentially just an extremely high ranking form of priest. I personally like the sound of Black Archbishop more.

Support all but Ezel's. This is an english wiki. We should not be leaving untranslated titles.--

I support all, but I oppose Ezel and vehemently oppose Keyes. As far as Ezel goes, I don't have a problem with some things being left untranslated, but an alias should definitely be translated and understandable. As far as Keyes goes, Black Archbishop sounds about as threatening as a rainbow monkey. >_> 00:37,5/29/2015
 * In 9 out of 10 cases I would definitely agree with you about Ezel (and lol! K.N.D. throwback @Keyes), however...I did some actual research on Dôjigiri after you and bitch posted opposition to confirm whether or not it's a real sword. In fact it is. The sword is named after its creator, Yasutsuna, and was officially celebrated as Dôjigiri Yasutsuna after it was used to slay Shuten-Dôji, a mythical oni/demon leader who lived on Mt. Ooe. It is also referred to as the Dôjigiri sword, or the Dôji-killing blade. Based on this, "Child Slicer" just doesn't cut it, as it doesn't reflect the integrity of the origin of the name, nor references the importance of the actual sword itself (Dôjigiri here actually translates to "Monster Cutter/Slicer", not "Child Slicer"). Dôjigiri Yasutsuna is an ancient, legendary Japanese national treasure, hence why it should remain untranslated, because it just doesn't make sense if it is. Link is here if you want to read~ 01:38, May 29, 2015 (UTC)

03:03, May 29, 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) Yes. Never liked the shell part its so bad.
 * 2) NO!!!! CHILD SLICER SOUNDS FUCKING COOL LEAVE IT ALONE!!! Also, I'd be all in for translating his spells to English :3
 * 3) Both sound sound equally cool to me :D
 * 4) Sayla's and Kyoka's japanese aliases sound very related, so having the two start with Goddess of in English would be great imo.
 * 5) Oppose cuz Freed is already called The Dark, so unless the two share the same kanji I think Torafusa's alias should be kept the Darkness to differentiate.
 * 6) Black Priest is better by a long shot rlly :)

I support all of them. Goddess of the Slave Planet ftw! And Ezel's fine, imo, because otherwise, might as well translate the name of Shô and Gatô to show and gateau.
 * lmao Munchy those are names not aliases. it is completely different situation. 03:10, May 29, 2015 (UTC)
 * The fact remains that those names + Ezel's alias are all Japanese terms which has some English term to them. Generalization ftw \( ^_^)/