Talk:Fairy Tail Gaiden: The Twin Dragons of Sabertooth/Archive 1

Rename
I suggest renaming this page to just "The Twin Dragons of Sabertooth" for uniformity coz based on the Ice trail and blue mistral spinoff their pages werent named Tale of Fairy Tail: Ice Trail and Fairy Tail: Blue Mistral. Even the chapters are called "The Twin Dragons of Sabertooth: Chapter 1" not Fairy Tail Side Story: The Twin Dragons of Sabertooth: Chapter 1. 04:46, August 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * Well we already have a page named Twin Dragons of Sabertooth. In my opinion the names of those 2 pages you mentioned should be re-named, cause those are their full titles. We use shortened titles for chapter pages to make things easier.--DuelMaster93 (talk) 12:44, August 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * But that page doesnt have the word "The" and it refers to a team not a manga spinoff, like how the word giant refers to a magic & a race, I just thought that this is a wiki and uniformity should be followed so i dont mind if this page wont be renamed and ice trail and blue mistral will be renamed as long as they have the same format. XD 13:02, August 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * Long article names has always been something I despise... although in this case, I think renaming the Ice Trail and Blue Mistral pages is the right thing to do.  13:06, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

I just realized that if this wiki will use the complete names for the spinoffs, then this page will now be called "Fairy Tail Side Story: The Twin Dragons of Sabertooth", a bit longer but if thats what the majority decided on then I'm cool with it. 14:06, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

Uhh... let's not and say we did. :/ I don't view "Fairy Tail Side Story" as part of the name. Just like we don't call Ice Trail "Tale of Fairy Tail: Ice Trail" we shouldn't call this "Side Story: The Twin Dragons of Sabertooth". In my opinion, the second part of the title (The Twin Dragons of Sabertooth) is sufficient. And having a page already named as such is no excuse. We have around six pages named "Fairy Tail" after all. >_>  14:13,8/7/2015
 * Actually, I could work with that; although it's kind of cheating to not use the full series titles. So we'll leave Ice Trail and Blue Mistral, and rename this page "The Twin Dragons of Sabertooth"?  14:26, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I think those pages should be left as is and this one should be changed. Something about calling Ice Trail "Tale of Fairy Tail: Ice Trail" just seems silly. ( .___.)  14:31,8/7/2015

Agreeing with Rai since its the best approach with all these spinoffs and sidestories.. 16:48, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

I agree with Rai also, perhaps abbreviations, such as Ice Trail and Blue Mistral, for spin-offs should be implemented into the wiki's naming policy? (If there is such a thing >.<) 16:52, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

That would make a nice addition, Dex, seeing as how the Naming Policy page atm only refers to Character names. 16:55, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

If this is the way it will be, I think it's a great idead to add such info to the Naming Policy. 17:01, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

Guys, we are a wiki, we are supposed to be professional and informative. Abbreviating names because you don't like how the full name sounds is ridiculous. Every page title should be the full name of the article and abbreviations can be included on the page. What Jakuwhore is basically suggesting is the equivalent to renaming Ajeel Lamur to just Ajeel because no one likes his last name. Rename Ice Trail to its full name and any other spinoffs to their full names. Then when writing the article we can refer to it by an abbreviation--
 * No, it's not. Ajeel Lamur is his actual name. As I mentioned earlier, I don't consider the first portion as part of the name so much as an introductory title. "Tale of Fairy Tail" and "Fairy Tail Side Story" read as descriptions or introductions in my opinion. And it's not like we aren't mentioning the introductory title, it's in the opening sentence of the article. Also, let's say for arguments sake that the first portions are parts of the full names, so what? We don't have to include the full names in the chapter page titles. "Fairy Tail Side Story: The Twin Dragons of Sabertooth: Chapter 1" is not only horribly long, but it's awkwardly formatted. We shorten things all the time, which is why we have "Team Natsu vs. Team Jellal" instead of "Natsu Dragneel, Lucy Heartfilia, Erza Scarlet, Gray Fullbuster, & Happy vs. Simon, Wally Buchanan, Sho, & Milliana" even though Team Natsu and Team Jellal are both unofficial titles that we use to shorten things up.  18:35,8/7/2015
 * Fight aren't officially titled, therefore we can name them what we want. Officially titled things are different though. I don't think it should be up to us to decide whether or not Tale of Fairy Tail is an official part of the name. What do you think it is? Just some throw away thing people are adding? The official full title has Tale of Fairy Tail in it so far as we know and our pages should reflect that. Yes its long, but if thats the title, thats the title.--
 * Could the articles not just have the full titles but the links to them use the abbreviated versions, like the redirect links? 18:56, August 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * Well the problem I find with what Rai is suggest is that if we remove the fairy tail part for the fairy tail zero series it would just look too short and awkward just calling it zero. And we can't just leave Fairy Tail in that one and remove it for the others, cause that creates inconsistency. Whether people like it or not Fairy Tail, Tale of Fairy Tail, Fairy Tail Side Story etc. are apart of the name.--DuelMaster93 (talk) 19:11, August 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * I think it could still work since fairy tail zero doesnt use a colon so its not Fairy Tail: Zero, its not enumerating the spinoff as Zero compared to the other spinoffs where the intro at the start of the title is followed by a colon. So in a way fairy tail zero is just title, compared to lets say Fairy Tail Side Story: The Twin Dragons of Sabertooth where the intro is telling us that this is a fairy tail side story and its called The Twin Dragons of Sabertooth, same with Tale of Fairy Tail: Ice Trail which says this is a story about a fairy tail member titled Ice trail and Fairy Tail: Blue Mistral could be saying this is related to fairytail called blue mistral. thats just how i see it based on them using a colon, coz if we disregard the colons then why would they put it in the title in the first place right. 19:32, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

@Flipsy I believe I just explained what I think it is in both of my previous comments - a description/introduction, not a part of the name. >_> And again, let's just go with the assumption that it is part of the name, why does it have to be included in the page/chapter titles? It being in the opening sentence and infobox of the article is enough, imo. Renaming the Ice Trail chapters "Tale of Fairy Tail: Ice Trail: Chapter XXX" is ridiculous. Including the the initial part on the actual series page is one thing and might not be that bad, but to include it on the chapter pages would just be silly. @DuelMaster Ummm who said anything about touching Fairy Tail Zero? The full name of Fairy Tail Zero is Fairy Tail Zero. Hence why we don't use a colon or anything to mark off the Fairy Tail part. >_>  19:48,8/7/2015

Also the way i see it maybe the reason why the spinoffs tend to use introductory words at the start of the spinoffs is related to publishing, like to show that this spinoff is related to fairytail to gain popularity, cant find examples but in some way looking at the harry potter books by adding harry's name at the start of each books people will automatically know its related to harry potter, or publishers will place the authors name near the title to tell the people its related to the story such as game of thrones and the lord of the rings books, sorry still cant find a better example lol,

but since its japan they might have a diff ways of doing things thats why the spinoffs doesnt use a uniformed format like, mashima is the only person who can use the fairy tail title, and the spinoffs made by diff authors means that they need to use a diff title cause of publishing or legal reasons. Since this is already a fairy tail wiki i think its already obvious that everything in it is related to fairy tail, so by removing the introductory words in the titles and just place it in the page itself it wont be much of a bad thing coz this is already a fairy tail wiki, But as always what ever the majority decides ill be ok with it XD. 19:57, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

@lightninggeist There are no colons in the original kanji though, for any series: フェアリーテイル ゼロ ＴＡＬＥ ＯＦ ＦＡＩＲＹ　ＴＡＩＬ ＩＣＥ ＴＲＡＩＬ（～氷の軌跡～ アイストレイル） フェアリーテイル ブルー・ミストラル フェアリーガールズ フェアリーテイル 外伝 剣咬の双竜 In the kanji there are only spaces, so really Fairy Tail Zero shouldn't be treated any differently to Blue Mistral. A colon should be added to it. If we use the full title for that series, we should use full titles for all of them (for the series only, and shortened for chapter pages)--DuelMaster93 (talk) 20:02, August 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * I see, well if thats the case then whatever the majority decides ill be ok with it XD. 20:06, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

Use full names pls. If that's what they are called, who are we to abbreviate the names? 13:55, August 8, 2015 (UTC)

Since everyone's opinions are as split as they are, I think we should just have a voting right away. I don't think one part will convince the other like this. A voting will be neccessary in the end anyway, so why not now? 14:22, August 8, 2015 (UTC)

Various Summaries
Is this canon? Don't think so. In which case, it should go under Appearances in Other Media, right? But ... will it have arcs? It's a weekly, so it might be quite long with different story lines. Does it get its own arc pages? And will the character summaries be handled by LUT? As a weekly, a tonne of backlog might build up if nobody takes an interest right away. At least have it on the board so people know which characters are left to be done? --Sane Lunatic (talk) 20:11, August 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * It'll go in AiOM because I don't recall any mention of it being canon. And I don't see it being that long, but even if it is, we'll still just put it under AiOM like normal. And yes, the LUT will have to handle it so no back log builds up. ( .___.)  20:14,8/7/2015
 * In my opinion it should go in the main history under a collapsible section, the same way filler is treated. The reason for this is because even spin-offs have their own omakes. Blue Mistral for example, it would be weird putting the main series in AIOM, and then putting the omake there as well. As for story arcs it may need it's own arc pages, since blue mistral even has it's own story arcs. But then again, it really just depends how long, or whether or not there are time skips in the spin-off (based on how the characters look, the sabertooth spin-off seems to take place sometime before the most recent timeskip, but maybe they might decide later to go after the timeskip)--DuelMaster93 (talk) 20:34, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

No mention of canon, shouldn't go to history and such imo 20:45, August 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * That's why I said to put it under collapsible section. It would just be weird with spin-offs and spin-off omakes on the same page. It would make AIOM much longer than it should be. Everything on the AIOM media page is pretty much one-shot material.--DuelMaster93 (talk) 21:00, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

Ice Trail and Zero would go to AIOM too if they weren't canon 13:55, August 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * That's debatable. Everything in AIOM is one-shot material. It would be very weird for everything to have short summaries and then you have massive summaries for the spin-offs. Not to mention it would also be weird in the case that these spin-offs have their own story arcs.--DuelMaster93 (talk) 14:41, August 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * No, it's not debateable. AIOM is for everything not specifically stated to be canon. It doesn't matter how long/short it is. :/  18:59,8/8/2015
 * If that's the case then why are filler arcs in the main history? And up until now we never had any serialized work put into the AIOM media section. The page would look weird with one thing having a much larger summary than every else, and having the spin-off and it's omake's on the same page would too. Not to mention that these spin-offs have their own story arcs. Also for character pages with multiple tabs, such as members of Team Natsu, on the AIOM tab the table of contents is a horizontal template, which that doesn't allow for sub-headings such as story arcs, which is not ideal. This issue would be eliminated if it were to be put in the main history. As long as we put the summary in a collapsible section with a statement about it not being canon, I see no problem as to why it can't be put into the main history.--DuelMaster93 (talk) 19:24, August 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * Because the manga/anime are considered our official sources. Manga has more weight than anime, but the anime isn't ignored. Spin off series not authored by Mashima don't have any weight whatsoever, and are put in AiOM because they are appearances in other media. The only reason Zero and Ice Trail aren't in AiOM is because we were told that they were canon. The same can't be said for these other spinoffs, so we're not putting them in the main synopsis/history. And we don't have any idea how long these spinoffs are. If their length becomes a problem (which I don't see happening) that can always be rectified simply.  19:37,8/8/2015
 * Well the way I see it, length is likely to become a problem. We have a ongoing weekly series, and 2 ongoing monthly series with chapters 30-40 pages each. Not to mention some of these characters appear in more than one spin-off. It could potentially fill up most of the page, just for spin-offs alone. But whatever, we'll just do it your way for now (LUT should probably take your advice and get started soon btw)--DuelMaster93 (talk) 20:37, August 8, 2015 (UTC)

Full Name

 * This option entails using the full name on both the series page (Fairy Tail Side Story: The Twin Dragons of Sabertooth) and the chapter pages (Fairy Tail Side Story: The Twin Dragons of Sabertooth: Chapter 1).


 * 1) Names should be official names. Abbreviations are not official names. Every page should be officially titled--

Abbreviated Name

 * This option entails using the abbreviated names on both the series page (The Twin Dragons of Sabertooth) and the chapter pages (The Twin Dragons of Sabertooth: Chapter 1).


 * 1) brrrppp  20:18, August 8, 2015 (UTC)

Mixed

 * This option entails using the full name on the series page (Fairy Tail Side Story: The Twin Dragons of Sabertooth) and the abbreviated name on the chapter pages - The Twin Dragons of Sabertooth: Chapter 1 or Chapter 1 (The Twin Dragons of Sabertooth).


 * 1) I say we use the full name on the series page, and the abbreviated name on the chapter pages. "Tale of Fairy Tail: Ice Trail: Chapter 1" is just ridiculous and you all know it. Similarly, "Fairy Tail Side Story: The Twin Dragons of Sabertooth: Chapter 1" is fucking ridiculous. Renaming the series page the full titles and leaving the chapter pages abbreviated just seems smartest imo.  19:04,8/8/2015
 * 2) Full official names for everything? So Chapter 447 would become Chapter 447: The Fight to Flee? No thanks. ._./ --Sane Lunatic (talk) 19:23, August 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * 3) Anything but abbreviated name is fine with me. As long as the series page is the full name is all that matters to me.--DuelMaster93 (talk) 19:40, August 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * 4)  19:58, August 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * 5) + Chapter 1 (The Twin Dragons of Sabertooth) format  20:33, August 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * 6) Clearly the best option for reasons stated above.   21:36, August 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * 7) better format.06:08, August 9, 2015 (UTC)
 * 8) This one makes more sense to me.  06:15, August 9, 2015 (UTC)
 * 9)  05:52, August 10, 2015 (UTC)
 * 10)  13:08, August 10, 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Wait wut? All we are talking about here is the series' name. 19:28, August 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * If we're not abbreviating things for the chapter page names because 'this is the official series name', wouldn't that actually make Fairy Tail Zero: Chapter 1 Fairy Tail Zero: Chapter 1: Fairies in Your Heart as that is the full official name? --Sane Lunatic (talk) 19:36, August 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * Just to clarify what Misk said, full series name, not chapter title. It would be Fairy Tail: Chapter 447 if we went with full name. Nothing to do with chapter titles here.--DuelMaster93 (talk) 19:37, August 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * My point is that if we don't abbreviate the series' names in Chapter page names because 'they are not the official names', then the logical conclusion would be to not abbreviate them at all and have the full name for the page name. That is, Chapter 447 would become Chapter 447: Fight to Flee or Fairy Tail: Chapter 447: Fight to Flee. --Sane Lunatic (talk) 19:52, August 8, 2015 (UTC)

... guys, what the hell. Why are you mixing up irrelevant stuff? We are talking about how to name spin-off articles 19:41, August 8, 2015 (UTC)

We have never included chapter names in the title, we are jsut talking about the official names of the series. Tale of Fairy Tail: Ice Trail vs Ice Trail--

But we seem to be changing the Chapter names because the official spin-off name is changing. Why can't we keep the spin-off name abbreviated in the Chapter names? Because pages should have official names? But we should then change all Chapter names to their official names. :/ --Sane Lunatic (talk) 19:52, August 8, 2015 (UTC)

.... we are not touching chapters... 19:53, August 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * Misk, he's not saying that he wants to change the normal chapter titles, he's arguing against the "official name" argument... assuming, of course, that I'm understanding him correctly.  19:55,8/8/2015
 * There are people above talking about renaming the main series' chapter articles, so I'm confused as hell 19:58, August 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * What Rai said. Just used main series as an example 'cuz don't wanna type the longass spin-off names. ^_^" --Sane Lunatic (talk) 19:59, August 8, 2015 (UTC)

For the Mixed option, if we're going to have it abbreviated for the chapter names, why not just rename it so they start with the chapter and # first? like... Chapter 1 (Blue Mistral) or Chapter 1 (The Twin Dragons of Sabertooth)? 20:12, August 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * Oooo I actually like that better. :D I added that to the option information. ^___^  20:26,8/8/2015