Talk:Etherious

Remove
Reli and I had a lengthy conversation yesterday about Doriate and Minerva being part of this category of Demons. Here's my argument:

Mard Geer said the "Demons of the Books of Zeref, "in other words those who were originally created from books written by Zeref. Minerva and Doriate were just put into a tank and given the Demon Particles/Factor, what Mirajane has. If we're adding Minerva and Doriate, then Mirajane should get the same treatment. But that would be erroneous. From the flashbacks of Chapter 381 we see that Mira didn't look exactly human after absorbing the Demon's power. So I guess it takes a while for them to suppress the power (thus Minerva's current appearance). Calling them artificial really changes nothing, because they didn't come from Zeref's books/spells.

Discussion
Mega, why didn't you add the reason of why they are there in the first place. SMH in disappointment. Anyway, this says that Doriate was a Demon from the Book of Zeref and that's why he is there. It'd be wrong for us to simply dismiss something the manga stated clearly and say he isn't. 22:02, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

I didn't add it because that was your side of the argument, so I left that for you to add whenever you wanted to. :P And like I explained to you, that was before Kyouka and all of the other Demons were introduced, and Gray was just going by what he thought. He saw Deliora as Doriate, remember? And keep in mind that Mard is part of Tartarus, while Gray is not. So Mard's words would have more meaning in this conversation than Gray's. And like I also said, calling Doriate a Demon from the Books Zeref wrong itself. Since we know he underwent the Kyouka treatment/was human and all. 22:09, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * lol don't say "my side of the argument". this is not something between us 2. you brought something up for the community to decide so you should have presented them all of the information so they could vote on it. But anyway, I'm actually going by the big black letters next to Doriate, not what Gray is saying. Yes, I'm talking about the big black letters Mashima wrote for readers to understand that Doriate is a Demon from Zeref's Book. Yes, Mard said Etherious = Demons from Zeref's books and Mashima also said that Doriate = Demon from Zeref's books. Therfore Doriate = Demon from Zeref's books. That he was made in a lab doesn't matter, afterall, Hades made Demons from rocks. 22:17, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * It's your side of the argument because at the time I was only asking you, since it was at the time the page was made by you~ Then I mentioned the community discussion thing. So, blah. And those Demons are not listed here as Etherious, right? And how can you say that Doriate is from Zeref's book when it was revealed he isn't...? Remember the conversation between Kyouka and Fran? That was pretty straightforward. :/ And I'm pretty sure Hiro didn't have "Etherious" in mind when Gray fought Doriate. The black letters are a summary of what is happening, and Gray had already seen Dori as Deli before that chapter. 22:31, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * You are right, they should be here as well. It has never been said that Doriate was not from the books of Zeref. Again, being made in a lab, from a human, from a rock, doesn't matter. He is still a Demon who was created from somewhere in the books of Zeref. 22:42, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * No Reli, you misunderstand. They were not created by Zeref, at least not Dori and Minerva. They were only given the Demon Particles that Mira already has. Minerva was not created by Zeref, and nor was Dori. That convo was during the time Minerva was being injected with Demon Particles. "I just pray that she doesn't turn out to be a failure like Doriate-san." 22:47, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Being directly created by Zeref doesn't matter on whether they are Demon from the Books of Zeref or not. That has never been stated. What has been stated is that Zeref's books tell how to create the Demons as Hades was able to learn one and create Nemesis. 22:57, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Yes, you are correct to say that. But we know for a fact that Minerva is human, as well as Doriate. And we also know that they were put in that tank to be given Demon Particles. 23:03, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Okay, I definitely see where both of you are coming from on this issue, but I have to side with Mega on this one. Simply because I just can't bring myself to say that a human put into a tank and given Demon Particles is a Demon born from the Book of Zeref. 23:12,4/22/2014

Being human doesn't matter, they were transformed. "Simply because I just can't bring myself to say..." Nice Rai. that sounds like a really good reason. So with what you guys are saying Mirajane should also be labeled as of the Demon Race, correct? Afterall, she has the demon particles which is what made Minerva and Doriate of the demon race. 23:41, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Were they transformed into Demons? Yes. Demons from Zeref's books? Yeah, not so much. And actually no, your argument is the one that is closest to labeling Mirajane a Demon. If one is to believe our arguments, then there is no way in high hell that Mirajane is a Demon. 23:45,4/22/2014
 * According to Mega, to which you agreed, Minerva, Doriate and Mirajane are in the same position. So since all have demon particles in them, that makes them all demons. 23:49, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Don't be silly. I was agreeing that I didn't think Minerva and Doriate counted as Demons from Zeref's books. 23:57,4/22/2014
 * Also Rai, it's never been said they are born, but we do know they are made. Lullaby was made from an already existing Magic Item, Nemesis were made from rocks and Minerva and Doriate were made from humans. 23:49, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Indeed, my only problem is what makes an Etherious special if all it takes to make one is Demon particles? If Mirajane has been using them for years, then it is certainly not something unique to Zeref. 23:57,4/22/2014

Vote
Vote below:

Remove Doriate and Minerva

 * 1) I think this is the most logical choice. :/  21:19, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * 2) I don't think a discussion is necessary here. Having Doriate and Minerva as Etherious literally goes against the definition of the term. :/ 21:25,4/22/2014
 * 3) NoNickNeeded (talk) 21:32, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * 4)  21:48, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Add Mirajane as an Artificial Demon
No matter what happens with the actual Demons, this one should definitely not come to pass. Mira might have the Demon factor and the title "The Demon", but she is not an actual Demon. NoNickNeeded (talk) 21:53, April 22, 2014 (UTC)