Talk:Yuri Dreyar

Appearances in Other Media
Since this guy made a brief appearance in the FT manga, shouldn't his main article be about that brief appearance only, with all the other info in "Appearance in Other Media" instead of the History section? ( ._.) Just sayin' 09:08,7/18/2014

Well... To be honest, we should discuss it. Since Zero is considered canon, I'd rather give this guy an actual synopsis section, titled as "Fairy Tail Zero" w/e, while people like Mavis or Warrod should get a FT Zero subsection in their history section, rather than Appearance in Other Media. My opinion ( ._.) 09:11, July 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * The way I see it, anything non-manga or anime = other media. Also, they do contain canon stuff as well like the Ryuzetsu Land OVA. You do have a point though... ( ._.)/ *adds discussion to SM* 09:20,7/18/2014

I was in the impression that other media refers to a non canon or non fairy tail appearance like Jump Ultimate Stars etc etc, since fairy tail zero happened canonically before the series, why not add it in the history, since all of the founders appeared in the main manga anyway, and for uniformity if ever what miskos have in mind would be implemented then all of them should have a FT Zero subsection in their history section. 12:22, July 18, 2014 (UTC)


 * Actually, some of the omakes/OVAs aren't technically canon in spite of being written by Mashima, because they don't really happen at a specified point of time, it's like an alternate universe with the same characters, no effect on plot at all, thus "other media". One of the exceptions is the Erza/Bisca omake, because if I recall, we put it to Bisca's history section. 12:33, July 18, 2014 (UTC)


 * But what about FT Zero, it happened in the past and it makes sense if what you did with Erza/Bisca omake will also be done in FT Zero, coz it greatly gives depth to the character's history, besides FT Zero is not an omake, light novel or a one shot but its like a small prequel spin-off series & its even called the secret origin story. I dont think FT zero will be an alternate timeline either since even the ruins in tenrou island is proof that people really did lived in the said island. Maybe I just feel like there should by uniformity when it comes to all the founder's pages, or I could just wait for what the other users could say about this topic. XD  12:54, July 18, 2014 (UTC)


 * I agree that FT Zero is fully canon and should be put into History/Synopsis sections. 13:01, July 18, 2014 (UTC)

Split the Synopsis into 2. A FT section and a FTZ section. *Runs away to avoid being bashed. User:B214 13:03,7/18/2014

FTZ would have to be treated as an Appearance in Other Media. Haru, Elie and etc. each have a synopsis for the main storyline and their appearances in the crossover/ omake are detailed under Appearances in Other Media, so I this form of layout, if we end up voting. I'm going to have to reconsider because it slipped my mind that FTZ isn't a one-time chapter like the Omakes are. The most sensible thing to do would be to branch off Fairy Tail and Fairy Tail: Zero under the Synopsis header. 18:39, July 18, 2014 (UTC)

Personally, I think this should all be adapted under a history section. Why? It happened in the past. If, just for instance, we put what happened in Fairy Tail Zero under Warrod's synopsis under a different section, then we have the founding of Fairy Tail, which happened at a later date than what we are currently witnessing, under his history section, and what happened even before that under the synopsis, which is where current events in the current timeline of things go. Just some food for thought. 19:12, July 18, 2014 (UTC)


 * That's why I proposed branching the Synopsis into the different mangas. Alot of the Omakes also occur in different times but aren't necessarily chronological, so giving it a seperate header shouldn't confuse users whom are reading the page. 19:17, July 18, 2014 (UTC)

I agree with Wrath. I think the history section would be best. It happened in the past. And where do we put things that happened prior to the series's current time? History section. 19:20, July 18, 2014 (UTC)

The history sections are not made to include synopsis-style information. It would be... awkward to say the least. Fairy Tail Zero and Ice Trail, canon or not, are Other Media. And I think the synopsis for these mangas should go in the Other Media sections. Now, with that being said, since the information is historical, it should go in the history section. But not the full synopsis like you guys are suggesting, just the highlights (like the history sections on every other page). I don't know if I properly described what I'm proposing, but I'll try to sum it up in a nut shell. I think the full synopsis' for these mangas should go in Other Media, but, highlights should be included in the historical section like normal pages. Hope that makes sense. >_> 00:26,7/19/2014

I have to go out soon, so I'm going to make this quick... I hope...
 * Putting this in the Appearance in Other Media section is, in my humble and *coughcorrectcough* opinion a horrible idea. The reason we use that section is because that media can't be put on a timeline. Ie. it goes there because we don't know where it goes in synopsis. When did Memory Days happen? During the GMG arc? Iunno. What about Happy's Little Job? Fuck that, who knows! Hence it goes in the other section. We KNOW when this is happening. Hell, we have years, so as far as I'm concerned this should most definitely go in the synopsis/history somewhere.
 * Our history sections are always set up so that they are short and just describe maybe where the character was born and what they were like growing up. As such, I do not think it appropriate to put all of FT0 in history. For Mavis, maybe this first chapter is okay, because she was a child, but now that the story is kicking in and we are going to get VERY long chapter summaries with events, putting it in history for me is awkward. So,
 * I think we should put this in synopsis. I mean, we can have arc headers as normal, but they will go before the Macao arc. Just add another arc there and on the arc page, specify that it is related to FT0. Iunno, the "Tenrou Jade arc" for all I care. Then Mavis will have Red Lizard stuff in her history, her synopsis starts with the Tenrou Jade arc and then goes into Tenrou. I don't really see what time has to do with anything. It's just the way we lay out our articles from what I've observed. I mean, Wendy's synopsis starts with Oracion. Does that mean anything even though Lucy's starts with Macao? No. So if Mavis' starts with Tenrou Jade (just a name for the sake of being clear) why should it matter if the others start with Macao or Lullaby arc? I say that if a character comes into FT0, they should be properly given summaries in their synopsis if they are old enough to play a role in the story: i.e, if Makarov makes an appearance as a child, that goes in his history, because his part in the story starts with chapter 2 and what not.

As for Ice Trail... Ah fuck it, I don't really give five shits about that or know if it's canon, but FT0 most definitely is.... both canon and with a specified time.

Anyways, just my five cents. I have to hustle now.

00:51, July 19, 2014 (UTC)

Carrot's idea. Carrot, you're a GENIOUS! *claps* 02:27, July 19, 2014 (UTC)

Just tossing an example here, which may illustrate better what Carrot meant: http://magi.wikia.com/wiki/Sinbad. Check the headers after the arcs names in the Plot section.

If anyone here reads Magi, you will know that there is a canon spin-off named Adventures of Sinbad. The article I cited shows an example of how their wiki deal with this matter. This could be useful here by using 3 headers: one for Fairy Tail, one for Fairy Tail Zero and one for Tales of Fairy Tail (which is also canon). Martios (talk) 03:29, July 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you Martios, that is sort of what I was going for. Putting these long synopsis sections of FT0 in the synopsis section with a little header. Perhaps "Events in these arcs take place before Fairy Tail, as recorded in FT0" or some shit like that. I don't care. It just means that all of our pages can have the same layout. I mean, if we do do something stupid and put FT0 in the *shudders* AioM section, what about important things? Will Mavis' page never say she was a slave girl with dead parents in her history because it's all stated in her AioM section? I just don't see how that works. 13:38, July 19, 2014 (UTC)

I agree with Jak mostly, and with Carrot to a lesser extent :/ not manga = other media, and the fact that they are not canon or cannot be put on a timeline isn't really the case with all the OVAs and omakes. I also see a problem with adding it to the synopsis because things do get confusing for characters appearing in both medias.

I mean, look at Mavis. Her manga debut is chapter 253 and so her synopsis begins with that, with FTZ synopsis in the history. If her FTZ synopsis go to the Synopsis section under "Before Tenrou Island Arc" or a similar heading, then her debut is not really considered chapter 253. And Mavis is not a unique case. Same goes for all the other characters that are alive in both mangas.

So I feel like the other media are one of the two best choices. The second choice is Carrot's, which I also support, it's just the debut issue that might get confusing. 11:53,7/19/2014
 * Why does it have to be confusing? Her debut can stay because that IS her debut for FT. If we have a note at the top of the arc that details that the following summary is from FT0, people will get that her debut listed is for the main series, and the specific earlier synopsis from FT0. Plus, I don't get the AioM thing for characters like Yuriy. What is the rest of his article meant to say? History: blah blah. Synopsis: Nothing, he's dead before FT starts. AioM: All this shiz?? o__O 13:38, July 19, 2014 (UTC)

Hmm, I see what Carry is talking about. And yeah, Rai has a point on the history section as well. But having it under the other media section is just wrong. This is Hiro's new "series" since he started Fairy Tail, I heard someone say. And I like Carry's idea. Place the things under the history section for Mavis when she was young, and after the encounter make a section on top of the Tenrou arc. Same for the other three characters. The thing is, however, it would overlap with the current series' layout. We placed the FT creation under her history section already (at the beginning). And removing that and randomly placing it under a new section would be confusing to say the least. And we don't even know how long it would take Hiro to show us (chapters) FT's creation. So having "Mavis and XX find the Tenrou Stone" while above it having the info on FT's creation would look tremendously wrong. Maybe we should make a tab for Fairy Tail Zero for Mavis (like Lucy's page), since it would be overlapping with her Fairy Tail story? The same could be said about Rai's proposal. Or maybe we could create a page Mavis Vermilion (Fairy Tail Zero). All in all, I like the tab idea a bit better than Carry's idea (which would be my second choice). 17:37, July 19, 2014 (UTC)

I think it should be in the History section an include headers like we do in the synopsis section. If not that then at least on the top of the synopsis section like Carrot says but I'm completely against Rai's idea to have it in the AiOM section :P 22:07, July 19, 2014 (UTC)

Sorry Reli, I think what you meant to say is that you're against having it in its proper section. :P As far as the history section goes, having it there would be beyond horrible because of how terribly redundant it would look. In my opinion, Yummy's idea is our best bet. If not her idea, then I'm still for having it in the AiOM section. But I'm absolutely against tabs and the history section. >_> 22:40,7/19/2014

Kay, going to address some things:

Raven, actually, I looked and none of the FT omakes specify exact time, which is why they are put in the AioM section. Some of the OVAs do, but they are put there because we already have the same stuff written from the manga in synopsis and the AioM section lists non-canon material.

Anyways, as for concerns... First, I'd like to say that I do not view FT0 as a separate series. As far as I am concerned, FT0 is Fairy Tail Chapter 0.1, and that is why I think this stuff should so in synopsis. I mean, as I said, Wendy's synopsis starts with Oracion arc, Lucy's with Macao arc; Jellal's has MASSIVE skips in it between Oracion and Tenrou and GMG, but that doesn't matter and won't even if Mavis' has a skip too. We don't say Macao arc: Nothing, Lullaby arc: Nothing, for Wendy just because she didn't appear - we leave it out. As such I don't see the issue with having arcs like "Tenrou Jade" for Mavis and the others under synopsis, especially if we state that they are FT0-related.

See, this is just how I see our pages. History - anything in flashback not related to the first arc the character appears in. Synopsis - anything the character does in the series (and FT0 IS part of the series). AioM - extras/bonuses that aren't time specific. For an example, see Jezelf. I mean, what would his article be if we had to write everything in history? It wouldn't make sense. To someone reading, he wouldn't exist in the story because he has no synopsis of story. This is why I think we just need to put FT0 in synopsis.

Now, the only issue I do see is what Mega said with the whole Mavis founds FT in her history, but her synopsis will start before that. For this, I just say remove the history section for Warrod/Mavis etc for now. It already says in their intros that they are founding members of FT, and their history doesn't expand on this, so I see no issue. As for the extras (Warrod retires and moves to the desert, Mavis makes Precht second guild master, Hades founds GH and finds Ultear etc.) well, we can use a non-time specific statement at the end of the arcs of FT0. For (a current) example:

"Seven years later, Mavis watches on as three companions land on the Tenrou Island shores in search of a treasure called the Tenrou Jade. (ref FT0.1)

''Later, in the year X686, Mavis, along with her friends, founds the Fairy Tail guild, with Mavis being the guild master. As they finally finish the guild building, all four take a photo with the building in background as a sign that Fairy Tail is born.[10] Mavis later entrusts the guild to Precht to serve as its second master, and passes away some time later. In gratitude of her services, the members of Fairy Tail build her a grave back on Tenrou Island''

Insert Tenrou Island arc here."

This is the only way I can see it being done really. I mean, even if we put the FT0 stuff in history as Leli likes, we'd still have this non-specific time jump anyways.

So, I'd be putting Mavis' parent dying and her being forced to work for the RL guild in her history, and start with her awakening to the raid on Tenrou as her synopsis, for example.

Anyways...

01:13, July 20, 2014 (UTC)

So what you're basically proposing is that we delete everything under Mavis' current history section and just add the bit of her parents and her work at the guild before they were all killed? And then start a new arc under the synopsis? That sounds good. If it's not what you meant, then I'm not sure anymore. 02:43, July 20, 2014 (UTC)

What about Gray and Ice Trail? :P 03:04,7/20/2014

I thought this was only for Fairy Tail Zero?? 03:05, July 20, 2014 (UTC)


 * Yes Mega, that is what I'm saying. As for Ice Trail, well, tbh I'm still waiting for confirmation that it's canon. I keep hearing different things from "It's not Mashima therefore not canon", to "Mashima is only supervising, so like the Light Novel it's not canon", to "Mashima is helping with parts of the story, so it is canon". I seriously have no idea, and it doesn't help that I don't give two fucks either :P 03:14, July 20, 2014 (UTC)

I completely agree with Carrot. Though it'd be better to put in the history section with arc headers like Reli said, 'cause FT series started from Macao arc and FT0 is only telling the history before FT was founded. :/
 * What about characters like Yuriy or Ziera though? Would they have everything in History too when they're basically Zero-exclusive characters? 13:06, July 20, 2014 (UTC)

Hmm ok Misk u got me there. I'm all up for Carrot's proposal now. And I say Ice Trail is completely canon and the same as done with Mavis' page should be done with Gray's. 14:23, July 20, 2014 (UTC)

Just tossing some more thoughs, it's highly likely that the little bit of information we got from the main manga about the foundation will be overlapped by FT Zero. So I don't think this will be an issue; both mangas can be used as sources for the information and the section can be modeled to eliminate anything redundant.

Regarding sections, if new ones are created for FT Zero arcs, the history section can be eliminated, though this will only happen with a few pages. Also, some pages might need adaptions, like with Hades: his history section contain information that will probably not be covered by FT Zero, so I think we should wait until the proper information is given before actually deciding what to do with it. Martios (talk) 00:29, July 21, 2014 (UTC)

Then it's decided! I agree with Carrot's idea as well. As for Ice Trail.. ( ._.) if it will be a short series, I'd have it in "other media"(it's not even Mashima's work). If it goes on for quite a while, perhaps the same with FTZ will have to do. For now, I say let's follow the same format for both series, until they're either over or one is confirmed to be more canon than the other. 10:59,7/21/2014

What makes something canon anyway? if it didnt contradicts the main series its already canon or if its made by a diff person or if its an omake, light novel or one shot it means its not canon? or its just us the fans and wiki users decided if its canon or not? coz some omake, light novel and one shots could have story that does not contradict the main story but isnt canon, what makes fairy tail zero canon and the others not, is it because majority wants it to be canon? coz the other mangas do make spin-offs and light novels that are a prequel or sequel to the main series and are still canon if you based it on the flow of the story unless it is said by the creators themselves, but what if they didnt say anything and just made more and more stuffs, how do you decide if something is canon or not? hopefully youll be able to give me your opinion coz the way i see this discussion, its just up to us the wiki users who decide if its canon or not,

As what miskos mentioned "some of the omakes/OVAs aren't technically canon in spite of being written by Mashima, because they don't really happen at a specified point of time, it's like an alternate universe with the same characters, no effect on plot at all, thus "other media". One of the exceptions is the Erza/Bisca omake, because if I recall, we put it to Bisca's history section." does that mean if it happened in a specified time and we're able to know when it happened it will now be considered canon? coz reading this whole discussion made me believe that everyone has their own requirement for determining if something is canon or not. 12:44, July 21, 2014 (UTC)

Voting
This also applies to Gray's spin-off. We will place the information under...

Option 3: Carry's Option
Carry's option basically says to add the bit of Mavis' parents and her work at the guild before they were all killed. And then start a new arc under the synopsis. The same can work for Gray, since it's a story that starts after Ur's death and before he joins Fairy Tail.
 * 1)  18:45, July 21, 2014 (UTC)
 * 2) Makes sense to me tbh.
 * 3) Sure. Although I'm still iffy about Ice Trail, and only god knows what the other two spin-offs will belike.  18:49, July 21, 2014 (UTC)